Union balks and $14B auto bailout dies in Senate
12-12-08, 07:53 AM
#16
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This goes directly back to my post from last week.
Gettlefinger is a total CLOWN!!!! He conceded nothing 4 weeks ago, conceded nothing last week or this week, then acts like it's Congress' fault... give me a f--kin' break!!! This " We just signed our new deal last year yet we're willing to renegotiate" line is pure crap!!! They are giving up NOTHING!!!
As another poster said, the unions killed the steel industry, they have now killed the Big 3.
Guys, file Chapter 11 TODAY, restructure & KILL THE LABOR CONTRACTS, the White House will get you money as will Congress... do it TODAY before none of you are left...
Gettlefinger is a total CLOWN!!!! He conceded nothing 4 weeks ago, conceded nothing last week or this week, then acts like it's Congress' fault... give me a f--kin' break!!! This " We just signed our new deal last year yet we're willing to renegotiate" line is pure crap!!! They are giving up NOTHING!!!
As another poster said, the unions killed the steel industry, they have now killed the Big 3.
Guys, file Chapter 11 TODAY, restructure & KILL THE LABOR CONTRACTS, the White House will get you money as will Congress... do it TODAY before none of you are left...
Last edited by rdgdawg; 12-12-08 at 08:41 AM.
12-12-08, 08:34 AM
#17
I think if GM handles it right, a bankruptcy could come out looking very favorable in the public view and not hurt sales too badly.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
12-12-08, 08:38 AM
#18
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I think if GM handles it right, a bankruptcy could come out looking very favorable in the public view and not hurt sales too badly.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
Most suppliers are on the edge of going under as it is so they will have to pay them.
More cuts on the UAW? Sounds good
We have not heard about the professionals taken a cut yet.
Get out from under the dealer buy outs?
12-12-08, 08:43 AM
#19
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I think if GM handles it right, a bankruptcy could come out looking very favorable in the public view and not hurt sales too badly.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
Set the blame on the UAW, file Chapter 11, and make many public statements on reorganization plans with goals and deadlines and monetary projections.
"Mr. Iacocca, there's a call for you.... Mr. Lee Iacocca, white courtesy phone..."
12-12-08, 08:58 AM
#20
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I'm sorry but if you literally have no other skills then you really need to get your life together. I've worked crappy retail jobs. I've worked 3 jobs before. It's a tough environment out there but the tough survive. If I was to suddenly lose my job and I could not find anything to replace the job (compensation, benefits, type of work), I WOULD settle for less because I have no other choice. People have to understand that sacrifices have to be made in their lives in these tough times, you can't just go on expecting hand outs.
Think for a second that if GM and Chrylser get their money they want. Let's say they stretch those funds long enough to survive another year. What then? GM and Chrylser probably don't have a survival plan. Do you know how long it would take to R&D small efficient vehicles, market and put the vehicles in the show room floors? It's going to take more than a bailout to get GM and Chrysler to survive, they need to do internal restructuring, they need to tell UAW who gives them the work to begin with and they need to market and create BETTER vehicles that people WANT to own.
Think for a second that if GM and Chrylser get their money they want. Let's say they stretch those funds long enough to survive another year. What then? GM and Chrylser probably don't have a survival plan. Do you know how long it would take to R&D small efficient vehicles, market and put the vehicles in the show room floors? It's going to take more than a bailout to get GM and Chrysler to survive, they need to do internal restructuring, they need to tell UAW who gives them the work to begin with and they need to market and create BETTER vehicles that people WANT to own.
besides that, they really have no control over what they're paid. the uaw decides if they can take a pay cut or not. do you think that they would decline a 25% cut instead of no job at all? i think not; i think most of them would be happy to at least keep their jobs at less pay than not have one.
and yes, it would take a long time to design and build better cars, which is something that needs to be addressed. do they have a plan? not really.
it's very complicated and i just hate to see hard working people lose their jobs when they really had no control over what was built and how badly everything was mismanaged.
12-12-08, 09:46 AM
#21
Earlier this morning, United Auto Workers president Ron Gettelfinger held a press conference in which he pointed the finger of blame back at Senate Republicans, particularly ones from Southern states in which many foreign-owned auto assembly plants are located, for the failed attempt last night to pass the Auto Rescue/Bailout Bill in the Senate. As we mentioned earlier, negotiations fell apart over the issue of wage parity, or what Senator Bob Corkey (R-Tenn.) called "competitive wages".
Gettelfinger claims the UAW was willing to make its wages and benefits competitive with those earned by non-union workers at transplant factories, but felt it must be done over time through the attrition of older, higher-paid workers and the hiring of new workers at a lower wage with less benefits. Despite this concession by the UAW, Senate Republicans demanded that wages and benefits be made competitive by what it calls an "arbitrary date", likely March 31, 2009.
It seems like a minor issue to stall such an important piece of legislation, which may lend credence to Gettelfinger's suspicion that the UAW was "set up" as a scapegoat by Senate Republicans who have it out for organized labor.
[Source: The Detroit Free Press, MSNBC, Photo by Bill Pugliano/Getty]
Gettelfinger claims the UAW was willing to make its wages and benefits competitive with those earned by non-union workers at transplant factories, but felt it must be done over time through the attrition of older, higher-paid workers and the hiring of new workers at a lower wage with less benefits. Despite this concession by the UAW, Senate Republicans demanded that wages and benefits be made competitive by what it calls an "arbitrary date", likely March 31, 2009.
It seems like a minor issue to stall such an important piece of legislation, which may lend credence to Gettelfinger's suspicion that the UAW was "set up" as a scapegoat by Senate Republicans who have it out for organized labor.
[Source: The Detroit Free Press, MSNBC, Photo by Bill Pugliano/Getty]
ffpower says: Mr. Gettelfinger, you are an idiot. Time is a luxury item which you apparently don't have right now. How hard is that for you to understand?
12-12-08, 09:47 AM
#22
let them fail
in my industry, a union customer service who does nothing but take phone calls avg 103k a year, where non union gets around 35k a year and does more
US unions need to fail miserably before they'll learn the lesson, I am really sick and tired of dealing with them..
in my industry, a union customer service who does nothing but take phone calls avg 103k a year, where non union gets around 35k a year and does more
US unions need to fail miserably before they'll learn the lesson, I am really sick and tired of dealing with them..
12-12-08, 10:38 AM
#24
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Here's a quick test:
Question:
Who is assembling the majority of US autos?
Answer: Union members
Ok, take that answer... memorize... okay, Question #2:
Why do US automobiles SUCK?
Answer: See answer to question 1 for a reference
Okay, one last question... apply knowledge from Questions 1 & 2... ready?
Question 3:
What is the underlying cause of the downfall of the US auto industry?
Answer:_________________________
12-12-08, 11:21 AM
#25
Someone over at Autoblog said it the best and I quote:
it seems those who back the UAW keep forgetting they are working in a field where people can be replaced at ANY TIME. They take it as if they DESERVE the job just because they do.
Do they not realize that in any other field, even medicine/accounting/engineering, you can be fired at any time? And if someone younger comes along, and is smarter than you, works more efficient than you - that person can replace you??
That is life, and that is why if you were smart, you would make sure you are on top of your game. Ending your education with a high school degree doesn't quite factor into "top of your game".. With doctors these days, the smart ones get into specialized fields (cardiac, gastro, urology), which requires more education. As so with accounting (CPA/CFA).
No one deserves to live in a 3 bdrm 2.5 bath house, own an LCD tv, and an iphone. You have to work for it... and "working" does not just mean physical labor. Gone are the times of the 1930-1960s where "work hard son, and you'll get up there".... its the year 2008/2009 now, and people should have learned "work hard, work smart, get ahead".
i just cant give sympathy to the UAW... i know there are good men and women in teh UAW, and its not their fault mainly, but theyve really got to stand up against the UAW heads for losing their jobs. Im sorry, but i just dont see these people worth more than $35K a year pay... not for a labor job that can be given to any other person on this planet after 12 hours of training.
Do they not realize that in any other field, even medicine/accounting/engineering, you can be fired at any time? And if someone younger comes along, and is smarter than you, works more efficient than you - that person can replace you??
That is life, and that is why if you were smart, you would make sure you are on top of your game. Ending your education with a high school degree doesn't quite factor into "top of your game".. With doctors these days, the smart ones get into specialized fields (cardiac, gastro, urology), which requires more education. As so with accounting (CPA/CFA).
No one deserves to live in a 3 bdrm 2.5 bath house, own an LCD tv, and an iphone. You have to work for it... and "working" does not just mean physical labor. Gone are the times of the 1930-1960s where "work hard son, and you'll get up there".... its the year 2008/2009 now, and people should have learned "work hard, work smart, get ahead".
i just cant give sympathy to the UAW... i know there are good men and women in teh UAW, and its not their fault mainly, but theyve really got to stand up against the UAW heads for losing their jobs. Im sorry, but i just dont see these people worth more than $35K a year pay... not for a labor job that can be given to any other person on this planet after 12 hours of training.
12-12-08, 11:28 AM
#26
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ffpower: I disagree on one this one. it should be:
Curious, if these Union workers have earned so much money over the years, wtf have they done with it? No investments? No portfolios of any kind? Did they realistically think that they would continue to go royal treatment until their death?
i just cant give sympathy to the UAW... i know there are good men and women in teh UAW, and its not their fault mainly, but theyve really got to stand up against the UAW heads for losing their jobs. Im sorry, but i just dont see these people worth more than $35K a year pay... not for a labor job that can be given to any monkey on this planet after 12 hours of training.
Curious, if these Union workers have earned so much money over the years, wtf have they done with it? No investments? No portfolios of any kind? Did they realistically think that they would continue to go royal treatment until their death?
12-12-08, 11:46 AM
#27
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BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Now THAT would be funny!!!!!!!!!!!
12-12-08, 11:51 AM
#28
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I know this thread is about the Senate bailout, which is dead, but by no means is an immediate bailout dead. W yesterday let it be known that if the Senate negotiations didn't work out he has now reversed himself and will consider using TARP funds for the bailout. Treasury has already said they are ready to move quickly to bailout the auto companies, and while that means GM and Chry, I suspect it really means GM. And the advantage that W has is he doesn't need to pass any legislation, just tell Paulson to cut the check. There is only $15B left in the TARP funds so this will empty that out unless Congress refills it (sorry, no more mortage assistance program that they started a couple of weeks ago) and it is meant to be the amount that G and C need to get to Obama and the new congress who will obviously not have any problems cutting checks for more bailout. And the UAW is probably counting on that. The only thing they are desperately afraid of is an actual bankruptcy filing where politics are no longer useful.
12-12-08, 11:56 AM
#29
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My point... get agreement with W in principle, then file 11 with stipulations and reaffirm with several major suppliers, bye-bye union contracts... bam, done....
12-12-08, 12:07 PM
#30
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As much as the auto companies want a check today, my guess is that if a deal is worked out, it will be over the weekend when the pols believe nobody is watching the news. The reasonably good performance of the market today indicates that people think the auto makers will get their bailout.