Union balks and $14B auto bailout dies in Senate
12-13-08, 11:58 AM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
The union IS NOT the sole problem. I ask who really works here? 
Lets talk hypothetically here
1. You take the union out. There is no union. Well you still have the same people who clearly don't care too much about building a top quality car and its not entirely their fault. Why?
2. You have the same **** POOR management who continue to make **** POOR decisions. They have NO VESTED INTEREST in these companies. Why? B/C they have been allowed to fail and walk away with millions of dollars. FAILING UPWARDS.
3. You still have the competition building better and better vehicles. Is not like GM/Ford/Chrysler are building the best vehicles and the UAW is hurting them. Most of their vehicles are average at best or Americans could care less.
4. Reputation. Do you think buyers give a crap about if these companies have a union or not? THey don't,they care about payments, value and will they own a great vehicle. These companies have crapped on so many people it might just be "too late", even with a 500 billion bailout.
Let me tell you what Porsche did when they were losing millions and millions. They studied the TOYOTA PRODUCTION METHOD.
Maybe GM/Ford/Chrysler should do the same.
Here is on Porsche's leader.....clearly he knows what he is doing.
http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_dis...a65810c2057ef0
Porsche AG chairman Dr. Wendelin Wiedeking recently published his first book, Don't Follow the Crowd: Suggesting a New Approach in Industry and Politics, Piper Verlag GmbH. Wiedeking imparts his thoughts ranging from the Porsche brand to what he thinks of securities analysts and bankers. The following are among the tenets put forth by the chairman.
+ Ideas and concepts that one decides to pursue must have the character of a long-term strategy; there must be no action just for its own sake, and all social groups, not only customers, should be able to understand the company's intentions without difficulty.
+ Those who do nothing but cut costs will soon have nothing and nobody left to produce and sell the goods.
+ The share price is no indication of a company's success. The stock market's verdict is important, but it isn't the whole story. The danger is that quarterly reports and the like will lead one to take this short-term view.
+ Trying not to hurt anyone's feelings and sticking to the middle of the road are one possible solution, but not the right one.
+ Every company needs committed, hardworking, loyal employees. It won't have them for long if they are constantly told that they have to be content with the pay levels of Thailand.
+ Corporate image is not created by blowing one's own trumpet. It's a long, drawn-out process and needs to be backed by one virtue above all, as I have never ceased to emphasize: credibility.
+ Don't follow fashion trends. Create trends of your own.
+ [On corporate restructurings] When you sweep the stairs, you start at the top.
Lets talk hypothetically here1. You take the union out. There is no union. Well you still have the same people who clearly don't care too much about building a top quality car and its not entirely their fault. Why?
2. You have the same **** POOR management who continue to make **** POOR decisions. They have NO VESTED INTEREST in these companies. Why? B/C they have been allowed to fail and walk away with millions of dollars. FAILING UPWARDS.
3. You still have the competition building better and better vehicles. Is not like GM/Ford/Chrysler are building the best vehicles and the UAW is hurting them. Most of their vehicles are average at best or Americans could care less.
4. Reputation. Do you think buyers give a crap about if these companies have a union or not? THey don't,they care about payments, value and will they own a great vehicle. These companies have crapped on so many people it might just be "too late", even with a 500 billion bailout.
Let me tell you what Porsche did when they were losing millions and millions. They studied the TOYOTA PRODUCTION METHOD.
Maybe GM/Ford/Chrysler should do the same.
Here is on Porsche's leader.....clearly he knows what he is doing.
http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_dis...a65810c2057ef0
Porsche AG chairman Dr. Wendelin Wiedeking recently published his first book, Don't Follow the Crowd: Suggesting a New Approach in Industry and Politics, Piper Verlag GmbH. Wiedeking imparts his thoughts ranging from the Porsche brand to what he thinks of securities analysts and bankers. The following are among the tenets put forth by the chairman.
+ Ideas and concepts that one decides to pursue must have the character of a long-term strategy; there must be no action just for its own sake, and all social groups, not only customers, should be able to understand the company's intentions without difficulty.
+ Those who do nothing but cut costs will soon have nothing and nobody left to produce and sell the goods.
+ The share price is no indication of a company's success. The stock market's verdict is important, but it isn't the whole story. The danger is that quarterly reports and the like will lead one to take this short-term view.
+ Trying not to hurt anyone's feelings and sticking to the middle of the road are one possible solution, but not the right one.
+ Every company needs committed, hardworking, loyal employees. It won't have them for long if they are constantly told that they have to be content with the pay levels of Thailand.
+ Corporate image is not created by blowing one's own trumpet. It's a long, drawn-out process and needs to be backed by one virtue above all, as I have never ceased to emphasize: credibility.
+ Don't follow fashion trends. Create trends of your own.
+ [On corporate restructurings] When you sweep the stairs, you start at the top.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-13-08 at 12:17 PM.
12-13-08, 12:04 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
I ask you this. If the union is dissolved, do you honestly think that solves Ford/GM/Chryslers problems and they will become profitable?
12-13-08, 12:33 PM
#64
Pole Position
Of course not. Imagine, though, the unions gone, saving GFC billions of dollars to invest in better engineering, better quality materials, better quality control, etc. It has always been my belief that if we had no UAW, the US would be building the finest, most reliable cars in the world.
12-13-08, 12:39 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Of course not. Imagine, though, the unions gone, saving GFC billions of dollars to invest in better engineering, better quality materials, better quality control, etc. It has always been my belief that if we had no UAW, the US would be building the finest, most reliable cars in the world.
They have simply had some bad idea/products.
12-13-08, 08:23 PM
#66
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A little humor:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
12-13-08, 08:55 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Of course not. Imagine, though, the unions gone, saving GFC billions of dollars to invest in better engineering, better quality materials, better quality control, etc. It has always been my belief that if we had no UAW, the US would be building the finest, most reliable cars in the world.
12-14-08, 01:32 AM
#68
Even if the unions were gone it would make no difference. It was corporate/management decisions to build cheap crappy vehicles in the late 70's and on that in the beginning made them alot of money because so little money was put into R&D, quality parts/materials, engineering, etc compared to foreign makes but now makes them little because they have to sell them at huge discounts and have mounting costs of retirees. The union has really no say what kind of vehicles or the quality of vehicles the big 3 puts out, actually the union a few years ago urged the big 3 to give them better quality cars and more reliable cars to build and something they can be proud to say they built. It was corporate/management decision to put most of their eggs in giant gas guzzling pickups and SUVs and not much into quality or smaller more fuel efficient sportier vehicles and that is hurting them. It does not really matter all that much what the workers are paid, it is the decisions from the top to build and design crappy cars nobody wants unless they are practically given away which hurts their profits.
If they save just $10 per hour from benefits package, thats $800 per car built in USA (from earliern CNN article)... thats countless billions that can be spent in R&D.
If everyone just wants status squo, then bye bye GM and Chrysler...
12-14-08, 02:37 AM
#69
Lexus Champion
A little humor:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
12-14-08, 05:06 AM
#70
Pole Position
Even if the unions were gone it would make no difference. It was corporate/management decisions to build cheap crappy vehicles in the late 70's and on that in the beginning made them alot of money because so little money was put into R&D, quality parts/materials, engineering, etc compared to foreign makes but now makes them little because they have to sell them at huge discounts and have mounting costs of retirees. The union has really no say what kind of vehicles or the quality of vehicles the big 3 puts out, actually the union a few years ago urged the big 3 to give them better quality cars and more reliable cars to build and something they can be proud to say they built. It was corporate/management decision to put most of their eggs in giant gas guzzling pickups and SUVs and not much into quality or smaller more fuel efficient sportier vehicles and that is hurting them. It does not really matter all that much what the workers are paid, it is the decisions from the top to build and design crappy cars nobody wants unless they are practically given away which hurts their profits.
Where else in the world do workers make 60-70 bucks an hour and then go crying to their union representatives that they're not making enough money, or that their benefits aren't good enough? The worst part is, the union backs them, and if they don't get what they want, they go on strike.
If my neighbor and I both had 10 dollars to build a widget and my hired help cost me 1 dollar, yet, my neighbors help cost him 5 dollars, don't you think I could build a better widget?
12-14-08, 08:24 AM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
A little humor:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
12-14-08, 02:45 PM
#72
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I don't agree. Corporate management did make bad decisions, yes, but when you pay union workers the ungodly salaries that they make, you have to cut corners. The largest expense of any company is workers' salaries. When compensation, salaries, and bonuses are completely out of control, how do you expect to build quality, long lasting products?
Where else in the world do workers make 60-70 bucks an hour and then go crying to their union representatives that they're not making enough money, or that their benefits aren't good enough? The worst part is, the union backs them, and if they don't get what they want, they go on strike.
If my neighbor and I both had 10 dollars to build a widget and my hired help cost me 1 dollar, yet, my neighbors help cost him 5 dollars, don't you think I could build a better widget?
Where else in the world do workers make 60-70 bucks an hour and then go crying to their union representatives that they're not making enough money, or that their benefits aren't good enough? The worst part is, the union backs them, and if they don't get what they want, they go on strike.
If my neighbor and I both had 10 dollars to build a widget and my hired help cost me 1 dollar, yet, my neighbors help cost him 5 dollars, don't you think I could build a better widget?
I don't know where you pulled the $60 an hour figure from, but it's wrong. The hourly pay between the union and non-union are virtually identical. The large disparity is in the retiree and health care costs. I agree that those dollars need to be reigned in.
12-14-08, 03:01 PM
#73
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Of course not. Imagine, though, the unions gone, saving GFC billions of dollars to invest in better engineering, better quality materials, better quality control, etc. It has always been my belief that if we had no UAW, the US would be building the finest, most reliable cars in the world.
Last edited by Stormwind; 12-14-08 at 03:08 PM.
12-14-08, 03:06 PM
#74
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Excellent post.
A little humor:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddle as, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...
12-14-08, 03:26 PM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
I don't agree. Corporate management did make bad decisions, yes, but when you pay union workers the ungodly salaries that they make, you have to cut corners. The largest expense of any company is workers' salaries. When compensation, salaries, and bonuses are completely out of control, how do you expect to build quality, long lasting products?
Where else in the world do workers make 60-70 bucks an hour and then go crying to their union representatives that they're not making enough money, or that their benefits aren't good enough? The worst part is, the union backs them, and if they don't get what they want, they go on strike.
If my neighbor and I both had 10 dollars to build a widget and my hired help cost me 1 dollar, yet, my neighbors help cost him 5 dollars, don't you think I could build a better widget?
Where else in the world do workers make 60-70 bucks an hour and then go crying to their union representatives that they're not making enough money, or that their benefits aren't good enough? The worst part is, the union backs them, and if they don't get what they want, they go on strike.
If my neighbor and I both had 10 dollars to build a widget and my hired help cost me 1 dollar, yet, my neighbors help cost him 5 dollars, don't you think I could build a better widget?
Big 3 autoworkers make around $28-31/ hr depending on time in, shift, etc and around 60-70K a year depending on time in, shift, overtime, etc. That is not an ungodly wage and they are not whining and complaining about it, it is a nice wage to raise a family on but it is not like it is a ton of money that is totally out of line what other people make. The $69hr figure that varies from sources include benefits, theirs and retirees pensions, etc and they don't see anywhere near that figure in their paycheck. European autoworkers are generally paid around the same if not more, German autoworkers much alot more then the big 3 workers yet they are not having all the problems the big 3 are having because they are much better run companies making vehicles people want and willing to pay a premium for, it is not just what you pay the factory workers that are causing the problems.
I am not totally against a cut in pay to try to get them back on their feet but some people saying they are not worth a decent paycheck because they are blue collar, unskilled, and did not go to college and should only be making $10-15hr or some crappy wage then I don't agree, that is not going to solve anything with the Big 3 except ruining their employees lives and making them very angry and unloyal to their jobs. How would people on here feel if everyone was saying they are not worth what they are paid and should take huge cuts in pay just to increase profits or free up more money that most likely will just be given to higher ups as bigger bonuses, perks,etc. The big changes and cuts need to come from the top first because that is where the poor decisions were being made that put them into this mess. The expensive mostly health benefits I do think need to be cut big time to save money and they could still pay the workers a little more in their paychecks so they can get their own insurance and maybe come out ahead, it is not like most of the people working there are even using all those expensive health benefits.
Even if they made huge cuts to what the blue collar autoworkers made and saved a ton of money, it is still the decisions at the top whether to use that money wisely and build the type of cars/products people want that are at the top of quality/reliability or just use the money to invest, give shareholders, line their pockets, get more private jets, payoffs, etc, that is pretty much what most white collar CEOs/Exectives have have been doing and that is one major reason why we are in this mess from the auto, electronics, banking/lending industrly and more will soon follow if these privileged insanely overpaid execs, CEOs, higher ups etc are not reigned in, stop paying them ridiculous salaries with insane perks and they are held accountable for their bad short sited quick profit but poor longterm decisions.
The whole widget thing does not apply here because it is not that simple, the guy running the operation making the widgets is the one to blame for why his widget business is failing, not how little he is paying people to make widgets to increase his profits and make more for the same amount of money. What kind of worker do you think you are going to get paying them 1/5 the price of the other worker, you will get people who don't give a damn about making your widgets and will not put any effort into making them right if you pay them so little because they will just eventually quit and find another better or similar paying job and your widgets will suck and nobody will buy them because you will get poor lowpaid employees. Union/non union autoworkers are not to blame for the big 3 crappy cars and people only buying them when heavily discounted, they just put together the crappy decigns with cheap poor materials and engineering behind them, it was a decision from the top to design and engineer them to be as cheap as possible and do nothing with the profits they made from doing so but line their own pockets,give payoffs, give shareholders, etc.