Honda Stock Drops Ahead of Urgent Announcement (NSX CANCELED)
12-17-08, 01:04 PM
#31
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I wonder if Takeo Fukui to Honda will be remembered in the same way as Roger Smith was to GM...
Honda was a company built by engineers, sure they were stubburn every now and then (like high-rev engines) but they used to be passionate. Their products in the late 80s and 90s were superb in almost every way compare to the competitors. However, in the last several years I've seen nothing but cost-cutting and giving in to the appliance-buying crowds. They've become another Toyota and is just riding on their past reputation.
A sad day for Honda.
Honda was a company built by engineers, sure they were stubburn every now and then (like high-rev engines) but they used to be passionate. Their products in the late 80s and 90s were superb in almost every way compare to the competitors. However, in the last several years I've seen nothing but cost-cutting and giving in to the appliance-buying crowds. They've become another Toyota and is just riding on their past reputation.
A sad day for Honda.
Funny, I completely agree with everything you just said.
12-17-08, 03:48 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Who actually BELIEVES any NSX announcements anymore, either way 
? They have been up and down like a roller-coaster for years, with no credibility at all any more.
? They have been up and down like a roller-coaster for years, with no credibility at all any more.
12-17-08, 05:09 PM
#33
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I should make this my sig 
Acura "Advance Absolutely Nothing"
From
autocar.co.uk
Canning the NSX? Honda should be ashamed
Andrew Frankel
Is Honda’s decision to can the next NSX motivated by prudence or myopia? As a fan of the original I bow to no-one, so perhaps my vision is more rose-tinted than it should be, but I incline strongly towards the latter view.
The NSX is the car that changed the supercar landscape. It might not have sold very well over here (even though it did succeed elsewhere and in the US particularly), but the value of such cars can never be counted in sales figures alone. It became the supercar benchmark: when Gordon Murray was designing the McLaren F1, he didn’t look at Ferraris and Lamborghinis, he looked at – then drove, then bought – an NSX, which he then kept as his everyday car for years.
Before the NSX, Ferrari’s staple was the fairly awful 348, which transformed soon afterwards into the really rather wonderful F355, and I have no doubt which car gave Maranello the kick up the backside that it sorely needed.
No one will ever be able to calculate how much kudos the NSX rained down on Honda’s head as a company of outstanding innovation and engineering excellence any more than we’ll ever know how much damage will now be done to that reputation now that its replacement has been killed.
But the bit I really don’t get is why it’s been axed. Clearly the market is in terrible trouble at the moment, but it will recover as it always has, and when it does the cars that enthusiasts with money will want to buy will be lightweight, ultra-efficient and usable every day.
These are precisely the values upon which the NSX set out its stall when it was first shown almost exactly 20 years ago. If it was a three-tonne SUV Honda was culling I’d understand in an instant, but the very fact that Honda kept the old car in production for 15 years – for much of it as a loss-leader – showed how important the light it cast was to the brand.
But today the values upon which the NSX was conceived have been tossed aside in pursuit of what Honda’s boss describes as ‘achieving mass-market penetration as soon as possible…’ It’s an attitude I’d expect from many faceless corporations, but from a company that built a proud and wholly deserved reputation through pure engineering integrity, it makes me shudder.
Acura "Advance Absolutely Nothing"
From
autocar.co.uk
Canning the NSX? Honda should be ashamed
Andrew Frankel
Is Honda’s decision to can the next NSX motivated by prudence or myopia? As a fan of the original I bow to no-one, so perhaps my vision is more rose-tinted than it should be, but I incline strongly towards the latter view.
The NSX is the car that changed the supercar landscape. It might not have sold very well over here (even though it did succeed elsewhere and in the US particularly), but the value of such cars can never be counted in sales figures alone. It became the supercar benchmark: when Gordon Murray was designing the McLaren F1, he didn’t look at Ferraris and Lamborghinis, he looked at – then drove, then bought – an NSX, which he then kept as his everyday car for years.
Before the NSX, Ferrari’s staple was the fairly awful 348, which transformed soon afterwards into the really rather wonderful F355, and I have no doubt which car gave Maranello the kick up the backside that it sorely needed.
No one will ever be able to calculate how much kudos the NSX rained down on Honda’s head as a company of outstanding innovation and engineering excellence any more than we’ll ever know how much damage will now be done to that reputation now that its replacement has been killed.
But the bit I really don’t get is why it’s been axed. Clearly the market is in terrible trouble at the moment, but it will recover as it always has, and when it does the cars that enthusiasts with money will want to buy will be lightweight, ultra-efficient and usable every day.
These are precisely the values upon which the NSX set out its stall when it was first shown almost exactly 20 years ago. If it was a three-tonne SUV Honda was culling I’d understand in an instant, but the very fact that Honda kept the old car in production for 15 years – for much of it as a loss-leader – showed how important the light it cast was to the brand.
But today the values upon which the NSX was conceived have been tossed aside in pursuit of what Honda’s boss describes as ‘achieving mass-market penetration as soon as possible…’ It’s an attitude I’d expect from many faceless corporations, but from a company that built a proud and wholly deserved reputation through pure engineering integrity, it makes me shudder.
Last edited by LexFather; 12-17-08 at 05:18 PM.
12-17-08, 06:55 PM
#34
Honda is just not getting it, nobody is asking for a $200k GT coupe, they are making it harder than it is. As matter of fact all they have to do, based on the original NSX, are:
1. Upgrade the engine (a nice V8 with around 450hp would do)
2. Keep the light weight concept
3. Keep the MR setup
4. Use 21st century technologies
Seriously, it's that easy...
1. Upgrade the engine (a nice V8 with around 450hp would do)
2. Keep the light weight concept
3. Keep the MR setup
4. Use 21st century technologies
Seriously, it's that easy...
12-18-08, 07:00 AM
#35
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Honda is just not getting it, nobody is asking for a $200k GT coupe, they are making it harder than it is. As matter of fact all they have to do, based on the original NSX, are:
1. Upgrade the engine (a nice V8 with around 450hp would do)
2. Keep the light weight concept
3. Keep the MR setup
4. Use 21st century technologies
Seriously, it's that easy...
1. Upgrade the engine (a nice V8 with around 450hp would do)
2. Keep the light weight concept
3. Keep the MR setup
4. Use 21st century technologies
Seriously, it's that easy...
12-18-08, 08:17 AM
#36
Handling isn't a problem about the old NSX!!! As matter of fact, there are almost NO problems about the old NSX!!!
The car merely needs 21st century technologies and a more powerful engine, that's all. Easier said than done? If Honda can make the Civic Type-R as good as it is then I don't think making a 21st century NSX is that big of a challenge for them.
12-19-08, 05:21 AM
#38
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i was skeptical too... didnt want to believe it as i was very much looking forward to the car... but its very much official. you can get it from honda itself and from the news wires. the comments were made by the ceo in his year end talk
12-19-08, 08:42 AM
#39
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Yeah but you are missing a HUGE point and that is...
Handling isn't a problem about the old NSX!!! As matter of fact, there are almost NO problems about the old NSX!!!
The car merely needs 21st century technologies and a more powerful engine, that's all. Easier said than done? If Honda can make the Civic Type-R as good as it is then I don't think making a 21st century NSX is that big of a challenge for them.
Handling isn't a problem about the old NSX!!! As matter of fact, there are almost NO problems about the old NSX!!!
The car merely needs 21st century technologies and a more powerful engine, that's all. Easier said than done? If Honda can make the Civic Type-R as good as it is then I don't think making a 21st century NSX is that big of a challenge for them.
When I brough the BMW handling in I was not talk about making NSX handling like a BMW. I meant to say is other manufactor include Lexus try to built a car to compete with the 3 series and no one could top BMW handling.
That is what I meant it's easier said then done.
12-19-08, 09:45 AM
#40
I understand you mentioned BMW handling as an example but you are comparing apples to oranges. Suspension tuning is complicated but Honda won't have that problem with the NSX because the original NSX handles superbly. It is equal to, if not better than, any BMWs out there. When I mentioned 21st century technologies I meant something like drive-by-wire and DSG, pretty much things that came after the old NSX's time. Swap the old V6 out and put in a newly developed engine shouldn't be rocket science too since there are bunch of amateurs doing that every single day!!
All Honda needs to do is modernize (yes, that's the word) the old NSX and not trying to reinvent the wheel.
All Honda needs to do is modernize (yes, that's the word) the old NSX and not trying to reinvent the wheel.
12-19-08, 12:39 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
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Yeah but you are missing a HUGE point and that is...
Handling isn't a problem about the old NSX!!! As matter of fact, there are almost NO problems about the old NSX!!!
The car merely needs 21st century technologies and a more powerful engine, that's all. Easier said than done? If Honda can make the Civic Type-R as good as it is then I don't think making a 21st century NSX is that big of a challenge for them.
Handling isn't a problem about the old NSX!!! As matter of fact, there are almost NO problems about the old NSX!!!
The car merely needs 21st century technologies and a more powerful engine, that's all. Easier said than done? If Honda can make the Civic Type-R as good as it is then I don't think making a 21st century NSX is that big of a challenge for them.
Whether Honda or anyone likes it or not, any NSX would be compared to a car like the GT-R which has some SERIOUS performance qualifications.The concepts and prototype pics of the 'new' NSX they were working on were hideous and they clearly had no idea where they were going.
But anyway, my point is there was no way to just bring the old NSX up to date... the car business is way more complicated and regulated.
12-19-08, 12:42 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
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I don't actually see them killing the new NSX as a bad thing, because from what we know it seems like it would have been DOA anyway, even in a better economy.
But with this economy and a 40% drop in sales, cutting a guaranteed loss-making car is kind of a no brainer.
I'm sure Lexus would love to kill the LF-A too, but since the release date is so murky, they don't have to say it.
But with this economy and a 40% drop in sales, cutting a guaranteed loss-making car is kind of a no brainer.
I'm sure Lexus would love to kill the LF-A too, but since the release date is so murky, they don't have to say it.
12-19-08, 02:30 PM
#43
But hey, thanks and I am glad that someone shares my view regarding the Honda NSX, one of my favorite, if not the favorite, car of all times.
Fine, then give it a taller front fascia in order to comply with the new frontal crash regulations. As for the added weight about tech nannies like VSC and traction Honda can counter that with lighter materials like utilizing more CF and aluminum (maybe even titanium). Sure the cost is going to go up but so what? We are talking about a super car here... I am fully confident that even with the higher cost, the "modernized NSX" will still undercut the F430 by a good margin.
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 12-19-08 at 02:37 PM.
12-19-08, 04:43 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
I wonder if Takeo Fukui to Honda will be remembered in the same way as Roger Smith was to GM...
Honda was a company built by engineers, sure they were stubburn every now and then (like high-rev engines) but they used to be passionate. Their products in the late 80s and 90s were superb in almost every way compare to the competitors. However, in the last several years I've seen nothing but cost-cutting and giving in to the appliance-buying crowds. They've become another Toyota and is just riding on their past reputation.
A sad day for Honda.
Honda was a company built by engineers, sure they were stubburn every now and then (like high-rev engines) but they used to be passionate. Their products in the late 80s and 90s were superb in almost every way compare to the competitors. However, in the last several years I've seen nothing but cost-cutting and giving in to the appliance-buying crowds. They've become another Toyota and is just riding on their past reputation.
A sad day for Honda.
12-19-08, 08:30 PM
#45
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It's nowhere near that simple. Safety and other regulations have changed massively since the NSX was introduced 2 decades ago. Just making the old NSX *COMPLY* would probably add 500lbs in weight. Then you have performance expectations. The NSX was wonderfully elegant, smooth, and an engineering marvel, but it was never quite a Ferrari. Whether Honda or anyone likes it or not, any NSX would be compared to a car like the GT-R which has some SERIOUS performance qualifications.
The concepts and prototype pics of the 'new' NSX they were working on were hideous and they clearly had no idea where they were going.
But anyway, my point is there was no way to just bring the old NSX up to date... the car business is way more complicated and regulated.
Whether Honda or anyone likes it or not, any NSX would be compared to a car like the GT-R which has some SERIOUS performance qualifications.The concepts and prototype pics of the 'new' NSX they were working on were hideous and they clearly had no idea where they were going.
But anyway, my point is there was no way to just bring the old NSX up to date... the car business is way more complicated and regulated.
Lets see, liveable, reliable, good power from a smaller engine, great handling, good looks. Honda/Acura is not a big engine/big power company.
As ffpower said, its NOT rocket science. They just needed to stay true to the original NSX's values and it would be the PERFECT sports car in todays environment. A big V-10, front engine, ugly car is not a NSX.
Lets be real, good economy/bad economy they don't make V-8s, RWD or anything luxurious. When the economy is good, they say "people don't really need what we don't offer". When the economy is bad, they say "doesn't make sense to build it".
Porsche doesn't make huge engines for the Cayman, Boxster or 911. They continue to evolve the same damn engines, 3.4, 3.6 and 3.8.
Honda is nothing more than a smaller Toyota now. Which is pretty damn ghey.