pagemaster

Just curious,.Whats more important to you? Quantity or quality?

speedflex

Gotta disagree here 1SICK.

Declines mean lost ground. I mean, Apple is still a small share of the PC market but if they lose less in relation to their operating scale while Microsoft loses more which company performed better? It is all a matter if percentages.

Look at it this way... if Infiniti had sold at the level of Lexus and lost that 21% in one year would it not be even more a concern than the 11% they did lose?

Gojirra99

I think the point is Lexus had no new products in 2008 except the limited production IS-F which sells in small #'s, whereas Infiniti has the revised G37 sedan and coupe, as well as new FX and EX(an extra new model that never existed before that added 12,873 units to Infiniti's sales last year, & makes up >10%+ of their sales.)

IS-SV

I'm not sure what the point is here. But Infiniti is in an ok position to weather the economic slowdown for autos.

speedflex

That may be significant but then it may not be. Infiniti had the misfortune of releasing these new products in the middle of a recession. It's hard to quantify what their sales would be in more favorable times.

The EX was a strange thing to start with. I don't think even Infiniti knew how to market it. In the best of times I don't see it selling more than 1000 per month.

But if you're looking at this year as an example of the company's future then you have to do the same with everyone. My advise? Don't.

LexFather

Speedflex, Andrew restated what I meant. The EX was targeted to sell 20k additional new units for the brand and it will meet 1/2 that mark in its first year. Sales will only get worse. The new FX has been a complete and utter sales disaster.


If you look at the first page, Infiniti lost sales last year too. So its not like this is the one year they declines.

There has to be concern with volume possibly under 100k units next year. Period.

Gojirra99

What I was saying is not whether the EX sold in satisfactory numbers to Infiniti, but that it's a brand new model that Infinti did not have anything comparable to it before, & that it alone added more than 10% of sales to their total.
Had they not introduce it last year, you can bet the decline will be closer to the % decline of Lexus, which has nothing significant that is new/revised came out last year.

pagemaster

Yes they are going to lose share because the american luxury car market is shrinking. 11% down is pretty decent considering everyone is down big. It remains to be seen what Nissan is going to do with the QX/Armada but my hunch is Nissan is going to cancel full size SUVs in America. The sales of the next QX will likely come off the next gen Patrol.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Infiniti at 90k units next year. What what you do not get is that there is a difference between Inifniti selling 120k units with deep discounts and selling 90k will solid profit margins.

LexFather

What I don't get? Please explain to me how a company selling 120k units then goes down to 90k with pretty much the same lineup gets to be more profitable? They have the same if not more aggresive lease deals and finance rates (0% at one point for some products).

Refresh that business course.

Again, this is not a beat up this brand thread. Still want to see some posts on what opportunites they have or how they can turn it around.

A downmarket is a market RIPE for someone to take some risks and capitalize.

speedflex

I think the mini G coupe, whatever it's called, is the right product for the brand. It maintains the brand's promise of performance and could be solid seller.

Revise the FX to be more useful without sacrificing the performance edge. More an X5 competitor than a Cayenne competitor.

Make the next M more dramatic and luxurious. In a sense, make it occupy the luxury space the Q used to. At the same time introduce that GT-R based sedan we've heard so much about as a showcase of everything the company does best. It should have all the best qualities of the entire range. Aim it more toward the Porsche Panamera than the LS, BMW 7 or Merc S. The timing for such an introduction would be crucial but it's something they must do.

Continue to build and expand the G range. More engine choices and variants. But I don't know what they should do with the EX. Like I said, it was a questionable product from its very inception. As the current car seems to target the female buyer maybe they should evolve it into more an RX competitor. Basically a more luxurious Murano with better driving characteristics.

But I think they should maintain their commitment to RWD and performance. That means no ES350 type car. In the end I think they should remain more a niche player with a strong brand promise and philosophy than a mainstream one with a more muddled, general brand image. That means that they may never be a 200K a year brand. But at 150K a year, I think they would do just fine.

GFerg

Well they are partnered with Renault. They manufacture a ton of diesel engines for the Euro market. Though Im not convinced diesels will prosper here in the states yet, they could do a G37 Diesel. Dont forget that a convertible is coming. Never huge sellers, but maybe can add an additional 10K units next year. People have also asked for a less powerful version as well at a lower cost, but the G already is the best value in class.

A Q45 replacement is necessary. Period. Some reported that it will be more CLS, CC like instead of LS, 7, S which IMO would be very interesting, but would limit sales. Stay true to its roots, but the Q name unfortunately would have to go. Its damaged goods now.

GTR like Infiniti is also necessary IMO. Would raise brand awareness and be a nice Halo.

Larger coupes and roadsters to fill the top end.



Surprisingly I feel that Infiniti is the better brand (compared to Lexus) to introduce a vehicle that would compete against 1, A3, C30, Mini's etc. Many young buyers with the G line. They have products that favor sport. A small sporty hatchback/coupe would fit nicely in there lineup. Target the Mini/GTI crowd maybe. Not all brands can do this and I do look at it as a corny way to gain sales, but if done properly I dont think it will hurt the brand in any way.

superchan7

Considering the EX is the first dedicated Infiniti model (all others have been co-badged with Nissan JDM models), the brand really is testing new waters. I'm sure they feel the timing was horrible.

LexFather

Great post. I agree they are in a good position to still attract new buyers, who will be looking around b/c of this economy. A small RWD 1 series sized coupe would be sweet with 4 seats. Or a fun hatch.

LexFather

Sales for the first 6 months of this year is right over 38,000. So my estimate was way optimistic at 95k units. They might not sell 80k units this year Volvo actually outsold them last month (first time in a long time I've seen that).

Their website is very odd. They separate the G37 sedan, coupe and convertible and bunch everything else together. Wow the entire lineup has 0% financing up to 36 months and either 2.9 or 3.9 up to 72 months with 4 grand down. Its scary to think how bad sales would be if they didn't always have these incredible deals.

Its just not looking good