mmarshall

I'll go with the AWD argument, though. For many climates, I'm a firm believer in AWD, even if it means getting a little firmer chassis/tires with it. Lincoln, for example, offers AWD on the new MKS (which I've reviewed), and never did on the outgoing Town Car. So, even though the MKS cannot equal the Town Car's smooth ride (in spite of Lincoln's marketing B.S. insisting that it can), the AWD addition on the MKS is itself a positive asset.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but there is a problem:

Today's geezers (The greatest generation) grew up on American irons, matured on American irons so naturally they retired on American irons. However, tomorrow's geezers (Boomers) grew up on American irons, lived through the oil crisis, watched the fall of the mighty D3 first handedly and most of them now drive Japanese and German imports. Who said it's a given that they'll retire with the American irons?

Times are a changing so if I am a betting man I'll bet that tomorrow's geezers won't be rushing into the Buick dealerships like their parents did.

IS-SV

I see your points and I too respectfully disagree. I think Caddy has done a better job of attracting a younger and broader more lucrative/profitable set of buyer in the US.

I don't buy the argument that there will be a lot of geezers later, of course there will be, but they won't be buying their grandfathers Oldsmobile/Buick/Deville/Town Car either. Keeping those dinos around for us when we get older is not the answer for a car company.

I'm like you and one of those older baby boomers too. And I drive a Lexus as my daily driver and you drive a Subaru, so we need to wish Buick luck with their strategy. And even people as old as my parents have no interest in a Buick, in fact my mother likes her Subaru.

bagwell

do you think its worked good for GM so far !??!?!?!?!?!?!?!

nope.....time to change and make Buick more acceptable to more age groups.

IS-SV

Nice distinction on the differences in the geezers past and present.

And I'm old enough use the term.

mmarshall

That's true to an extent (and I myself was one of the Baby Boomers who stopped driving American-nameplate cars in the 1980's because of their poor quality), but, as more and more aging Boomers get arthritis, sore backs, necks, etc....the firm-riding, sporty-handling German/Japanese sport sedans they've been driving for the last 20-30 years are going to look (and feel) less and less appealing to them. Many of them will either go back to their parents' soft-riding Buicks/Cadillacs/Lincolns, or, if GM and Ford abandon that type of car for sporty sedans (which seems to be a real possibilty), to whatever they can find that pleases them....even if it means used cars. That's why it is critically important that Lexus amd Mercedes don't over-sport the LS460 and S550...those are two smooth-riding icons that will also appeal to the retiring Boomers (those that have the money for them).

Times WERE a changin....but they soon will be changing back. I wouldn't be too quick to bet that money if I were you.

SLegacy99

Maybe that says that Buick should be targeting other age groups.

mmarshall

Yes, they have. And it's helped them in the last couple of years, because a lot of the big auto-buying money has been in sport sedans. But in the future, I just don't see that being the case.

Yes, there will, in fact, be a lot of geezers. That is a fact, not a debatable subject. What IS debatable is what their buying habits and preferences will be....as this thread shows. You and I (respectfully ) disagree somewhat on what those preferences will be.

Yes, I do like Subies, but primarily for their reliability and their superb AWD systems. I had two Buicks in my younger days, though....and I do miss their ride, quietness, and smooth transmissions. In a warm-climate area with no slick roads, I could see myself in a Buick....or a Lexus LS460. No matter what I say about Buick, I consider the LS460 to be the best luxury car currently in production.

IS-SV

That too is a risky bet. I'm staying out of this betting game and not buying any GM stock. I don't expect things to change back at Buick or GM. Only massive restructuring will give them some hope of survival.

That's why the federal government is so reluctant to loan (not just give handouts) money to a company that may not be viable.

mmarshall

Definitely. No question about it. Buick has one of the most consistant and loyal owner groups and repeat owner groups in the industry, even if they are older than the average car buyer. Buick sales are currently down, yes, but so are those of virtually every other automaker as well.....you can't use declining sales as an arguement.



Again, if you reach out to new hands, you can't bite the hand that feeds you at the same time. That's why Buick and Cadillac will HAVE to keep at least a couple of soft luxo-cruisers in their lineup. If they DON'T, they will suffer in the long run. They can convert some of their products to sportier platforms, but there had better be some non-sporting models left for those who want them.

LexBob2's post, above, hit the nail right on the head when he spoke of the traditional Buick customers at the car show he was at telling the Buick reps there that they would buy a new Lucerne rather than be forced into a new, overly-sporty LaCrosse (actually, it concerned the engine complexity more). People at the D.C. show I was at were saying the same thing at the Buick display there. What would happen if Buick didn't have the Lucerne to fall back on? They would go somewhere else...or buy a used car.

LexBob2

I agree with those who don't think today's boomers will want to buy/drive the "luxury" cars of their parents. One just needs to look at what the boomers are driving today and for the past few years. It obviously hasn't been Buick, Caddy, Lincoln etc.

Retiring isn't going to make them run out and get these aformentioned brands. They'll have their own preferences and perception of what a luxury car is.

Who knows maybe a more modern LaCrosse will grab a few sales from them. It won't be easy.

IS-SV

Exactly, talk is cheap, (except when Congress is doing the talking.

But what really counts is "putting our money where our mouth is", that's what contributes to auto company bottom lines. And for the last decade people like us have been buying something other than Buicks. The LS460 gets my

LexBob2

I agree on both of your points.

I sat in a Genesis today for the 1st time and it was very nice. Nothing to not like. Just didn't feel $42k nice to me for a number of reasons..

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

mmarshall, I am not trying to argue with you about whether or not older people will ditch sport for comfort. As matter of that there are many young people out there who like the comfort of the Lexus over the sporty Bimmer.

What I am trying to say is that Buick doesn't have to be more sportier, but it has to be more technology-driven, appeared more advance and look more "modern". The new LaCrosse seems to be heading into the right direction. No matter what the Buick kool-aid its marketing people are trying to make us drink the reality is that the new LaCrosse isn't going to be much more "sportier" than the current version. They used the ES350 as the benchmark so just for that alone how much more sporty can the LaCrosse be?

Sure when people get older they tend to want softer rides, heck, I am 27 and sometimes I feel my lowered IS350 rides too firm! However, change is needed for Buick because soft or not, I know one thing for sure: the majority of the boomers don't want bench seat, column-mounting shifter and dated cabin design.

LexBob2

I've cooled off from the show now and realized I'm fine with the cars we have. I'll wait until the big Chapter 11 Two Days Only Dealer Blowout Sales begin. Think of the deal I'll get!