agree... kill the "F"...it just sound to rice out..and sound horrible..

L-tuned sound much nicer....

 

This is the most ridiculous post I've read on here in a long time.

Riced out? It sounds way more aggressive than an M3 and more like the C63. Does the MB sound "riced out"?

I have yet to meet anyone that didn't think the exhaust of the F sounded amazing.

You may prefer L-tuned and you are entitled to your opinion. But to call the F sound "riced out" is talking out of your a@@.

 

Sorry CDNROCKIES. I could care less. Lexus's cars should be silent.

 

This is a great discussion on Lexus' market perception.


The LS variants are currently outselling the S-Class and 7-Series. It offers a more forgiving (read lazy) ride, with outstanding gas mileage (for what you get). Of all the Lexus products, I think the LS is doing what it's supposed to do: offer luxurious amenities and technology ABOVE performance and speed.

The higher age of the LS consumer is not looking for speed or performance. This is why Lexus' formula works for the LS. For the type of consumer that purchases the LS, they want to be completely pampered. Yes, speed is important, but in the whole picture, it's not priority.

The only thing that the LS does not have over the 7-Series or S-Class is historical prestige. This is extremely important in Europe, where tradition supercedes trends. For now, hybrids are the trend. V12 engines are still considered more prestigious than hybrids, and that is understandable. I think this will quickly change under the eyes of consumers, as gas prices rise and anti-gas-guzzling mentality turn common (like how we now hate Hummers).


I see the LS460 to have a different "personality" than the LS430.

The LS430 succeeded with superior build and quality. The ride was a lot smoother. Most of the car's amenities were focused on pampering (not exciting) the driver. It's a driver-pampering car.

The LS460 has more technology and amenities, and leans a little more towards performance, but still far from what European makes offer. Not as well built as the LS430, but still superb in what it provides. The LS460 was focused on the comfort and safety of all passengers in mind. It's a passenger-pampering car.

As far as the AWD is concerned, the car was made for handling, but not performance. I think Lexus did the right thing to detune the engine a bit for gas mileage savings. I doubt that Lexus had racing in mind when they engineered this car. In this economy, the trend (the original focus of this thread) is to save fuel, even if the car is creeping towards 600 lbs.

Regarding your recommendations, it would be extreme folly to move everything up (in a marketing point of view). The IS (sporty) and ES (conservative) need to stay approachable for people entering into the Lexus brand. The GS (sporty) and ES (conservative) need to provide more room than the IS, but still be less roomy, less luxurious, and less technologically advanced (and cheaper) than the flagship LS.

I believe that consumers will be confused if the IS/ES falls into GS pricing category (like how the 1-Series is priced near the 3-Series too closely), or if the GS falls into LS pricing category. It's a lose-lose situation when there is inter-brand competition. Lexus' products should never compete with one another.

 

Correction...Lexus' mainstream cars should be silent.

This brings us back again to competing against BMW, MB and Audi. One of the biggest complaints with the M3 is the sound of the motor. High reving engines don't produce the growl that the MB and IS F make. I'm not sure you're going to find very many people interested in a performance automobile that are going to want the engine to be quiet.

The only way Lexus becomes a true competitor to the Germans is if they can offer products that truly compete with their perfomance lines (ie. M, AMG, RS). If that doesn't happen Lexus buyers will always be forced to leave the brand if they want a car that performs at a higher level.

 

I agree with you 100%.

BMW has the M3, M5 and M6
Benz has the C63, E63, SL65 and S63
Lexus has the IS F, hopefully a GS F and the LF-A which will be part of the "F" sports division.

Lexus is competing with the best and will give them a run for their money...

 

I see some slight contradiction above Phil, the LS460 is actually MORE of a driver's car than the LS430, although not by too much

And the LS460/600h is still the best built Lexus sedan currently in production, & second only to the SC430 in overall build quality if you include all Lexus models currently in production.

 

I see.

What I meant to say was that most of the amenities for the LS430 were driver oriented, although the sporting aspect was not there.

For the LS460, most of the amenities were passenger oriented, although the car rode more sportily.

 

Performance wise the LS460 is actually better than the LS430. Oh and I am not just talking about acceleration.