IS-SV

Yes, some good observations on this thread about STS.

I contend that the Cadillac STS showcases GM's problems on the product front, (ignoring the union problems, debt load, dealer problems, etc.). The car certainly isn't a total train wreck, but this is not the kind of car that any strong auto company fears. And in the case of weak car company like GM, too many cars like this will drag them into bankruptcy.

mmarshall

Gotta remember, though.......Cadillac's customers are a faithful lot. Like Buick's equally faithful customers, they stick to the company like glue.
Both rank up there with the Ford F-150/Silverado in owner loyalty......the average Buick/Cadillac customer has been a repeat owner for decades. I knew one woman (well-heeled, of course), who traded for a brand-new DeVille/DTS, every fall, for almost 40 years before she passed away. Though she had practially a brand-new car every year and didn't NEED a new car, she got one anyway just as a tradition.

IS-SV

I agree the old-school Caddie drivers are faithful, but as you pointed out the faithful ones are soon to be dead or dead already. The truck buyers are younger, but look how truck sales have tanked big time.

The 2 vehicles that speak to recent success for Cadillac are the pimp-daddy Escalade and the competitive CTS. Both of these vehicles don't attract the classic loyal customer, but there is no denying their strong sales performance.

2009 is here. Which car companies have the products to deal with it...

mmarshall

I don't want to get too deeply into stereotypes, but the Escalade (and the rival Lincoln Navigator) are developing their own set of loyal customers.....NBA/NFL athletes, musicians, rap singers, and, yes, in some cases, pimps. But my point is.....they are joining the already strong list of Caddy repeat-buyers. As they age a little more, it is THEY who will be looking at the DTS/STS instead of the Escalade/CTS. That's why Cadillac (and Lincoln) would be foolish to get rid of their traditional big cars or try and make sports-sedans out of them. Lincoln has already all but dumped the Town Car by restricting it to fleet/limo buyers only.....a serious mistake, IMO, that Lincoln will eventually regret. Cadillac may also regret it if they dump the DTS/STS. Already, here is talk of dumping both cars for a new Cadillac sedan......the details of which are still unclear.

IS-SV

I agree with your above observations about 'Slades and 'Navs, I'm very familiar with the culture, being tuned into it in Cal.
Note: I owned a Hummer for 2.5 years.

Regardless, IMHO I feel sorry for any car company that considers these a major part of their product offerings. This is not a growth segment (understatement) and a company that's nearly bankrupt has to be very concerned.

LexBob2

Yes, GM and Ford will have to continue to launch cars like the CTS and MKS to appeal to todays buyers.

They also need to determine what type "luxury" cars will have appeal in the market, since tastes have changed in this area.

mmarshall

The big question is going to be what kind of cars the enormous Baby Boom generation will want in their retirement years, which are starting as we speak. Many of them are going to want big, soft, floaty traditional luxury cars. Others will want more sport-oriented luxury cars like BMWs and Audis.

(And then some of them will want Subarus like me )

But the point I'm making is that I still think it is (and will be) risky for Caddy and Lincoln to drop their traditional big cars. As millions of new retirees hit the auto market, I just don't see a big drop-off in demand for them in the future. Demand will (probably) be there, but, at this rate, supply won't.

tsavo

You aren't serious, are you?

That interior is absolutely horrid. It's all plastic and looks cheap as hell. It's your typical GM product. The interior in the 60k Escalades was just as cheap until a couple of years ago.

IS-SV

GM trucks started to get nice interiors around model year 2006.

Yes a bit late, just look at the dive in truck/SUV sales.

IS-SV

Exactly, what appeals to 70+ year olds today, will not be the same taste as the luxury car buyers in my generation.

mmarshall

Not really. Though I don't agree with him entirely, Pagemaster is at least partly correct here. That is real Zebrano wood (and good-looking stuff, too), that Cadillac used in the '96-04 SLS/STS, not plastic. But, much of the rest of the interior, apart from the wood trim, is (as you note) cheap GM plastic.

theanimala

I disagree with you on the interior. My dad still drives his 98 SLS, and the interior looks nice from afar, but inside you the buttons seem very cheap, as well as the leather. The new one is quite a bit nicer, but not as nice as the CTS.

mmarshall

Pretty much what I said in my last post....the Zebrano wood, on that generation STS, was nice; the rest of the interior was more or less cheap GM plastic.

Both are pretty nice, now. The 2008 interior refreshening for the STS did wonders. The new CTS-V, however, doesn't appear to have any wood trim, and the STS-V's wood (like other luxury-sport sedans) has a dull, grayish-tinge to it. I've never understood that.....why luxury-car manufacturers put dull, grayish, blackish wood (or no wood) into their sport models instead of the natural-looking brown wood that goes into their regular models. To me, it just doesn't make sense. I understand the sport "image", but that doesn't mean you can't use the same wood you do in the standard models (which, IMO, often looks better).

Faymester

Lane departure beeper can be turned off yes?

mmarshall

Yes. The STS has not only the beeper, but a green symbol in the middle of the tach that lights up when you start to drift sideways. It can be turned off, like on similiar Infiniti systems.

There is also a yellow lighted symbol that appears in the left-hand outside mirror when a vehicle is in your blind spot, but, technically, that is a different system.