ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

How did this thread become m3 vs. C63 vs. IS F again?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yes, sorry, my bad. i apologize...

let's get back on topic

Mr Johnson

Well... I'm thinking that with the right TQ levels you can get some serious performance. Think F1 engine. Think TQ around 275 ft/lbs. HP ~900 HP.

So: 900*5252/275 = 17188 RPM.

So all Acura (or AMG) has to do is make not more TQ but really, really high revving engines! See BMW does have the right idea!

PS: I'll take a lower HP engine with monster TQ too (Think TurboDiesel. Think Audi R10).

PPS: IS-F ROOOLZZZZZ (sorry, couldn't help myself)

CDNROCKIES

Sorry.

Back on topic....this could also be viewed as a huge opportunity for Lexus to expand their performance vehicles and compete on a closer level. With MB and BMW moving towards smaller, TT engines, Lexus can hopefully get in at the same time with an equally great motor instead of stuffing big V8's in little cars...lol.

mmarshall

Granted, it's hard to argue with excellent TT powerplants like in the BMW 335/135 (I'm a big fan of the 335, which I consider, in some ways, a better dollar-for-dollar deal than the M3), but in the long run, I'm not sure that TT is the way to go. Turbos increase engine complexity, production costs, maintenance requirements, create a lot of heat that requires special oils (usually synthetic), require careful warm-ups and extended-idle shutdowns, often don't last the life of the engine, and, because of the amount of compression, sometimes don't allow the use of regular gas, even in a pinch, and even with computer controls and knock sensors.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Personally I think Lexus already has its own pseudo-FI engines and they are in the GS450h and LS600hL. The downsides for a performance hybrid right now are the tranny and batteries. With the LI batteries coming in the very near future the later of the two problems can be managed fairly easily. Now if Lexus can find a way to mate the hybrid engines to a non-CVT transmission and drive like a ICE car I think the solution is then near perfect.

People will always say why go to all the trouble since drop in a turbo or supercharger is much simpler. I say Lexus has to find a way to be "unique" and since they have already invested so much into this hybrid thing why not just milk it to death? I already have a catch phrase for Lexus...

They can go fast with small engines but we can do the same AND be more efficient.

CDNROCKIES

I agree with both of you.

The point I was trying to make is that BMW has already announced that the next generation M3 will be a TT V6 (much to the dismay of the M traditionalists) and it appears that MB will have to go a similar route if they truly mean what they are saying here.

Essentially, this is a new starting point for the "hp wars". All manufacturers will be looking for new ways to improve on their performance numbers. So if Lexus/Toyota can find a way to introduce a competitive system (preferably innovative in a perfect world) they could lead the next generation of performance cars rather than playing catch up with the Germans, like they currently are.

LexFather

lol, lol lol. I totally agree I would take low torque over high hp. No autobahns here.

Its great though to see BMW/Lexus/Benz etc offer different solutions to the power problem

primecut

iTrader: (1)

Good for MB. If they can innovate and continue to enhance performance without adding heft or HP, then kudos to them. But I think this is also stating the obvious considering that the auto industry is already shifting in that direction.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the HP war is part of a bigger picture, which is the fact that the cars are getting bigger and more complex. The increased HP is only a reaction to offset the size and weight of the car. So this is really about curbing the size of the cars rather than curbing the HP.

Cars in general have gotten so big that it's getting ridiculous. And it's not like the interior space has grown proportionally to the exterior size either. When manufacturers are able to slot smaller models under their compact models, you know it's time for a change. For ex: 1 series, Yaris, Venza, Fit, etc. How is it that the Corolla is almost as big as the old camry, and the Accord is like a limo now! This cycle is going to stop eventually, and I think now it's probably a good time given the economy situation and the need for green/small cars.

GS69

AMG to Introduce Engine Start-Stop & Direct Injection Tech Next Year

With AMG no longer focused on chasing big horsepower numbers, efficiency could quickly become the new performance benchmark for the Affalterbach tuner. Currently in development is a range of new diesel models, advanced lightweight materials and construction methods, as well as hybrid systems, and by next year AMG will reportedly introduce engine stop-start and direct-injection technology into its lineup.

According to AutoTelegraaf, the AMG set-up will work much like any other engine stop-start system, shutting down the engine when the vehicle sits in traffic and then kick-starting it into life once the brake pedal is released or the accelerator depressed. The direct-injection system will be based on the second-generation system already launched in the Mercedes Benz C350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY model.

AMG has set itself an internal goal of reducing fuel consumption of its lineup 30% by 2012, but to achieve this engineers will require much more advanced technology than engine stop-start and direct-injection systems. While fuel-efficient diesels and hybrid models are still several years away, we have already seen the first implementation of AMG’s new green initiatives in vehicles like the SL65 Black Series. The car’s advanced composite materials and other weight-saving construction techniques are set to filter across to future models.