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[picture]...2010 Toyota Prius vs 2010 Honda Insight

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Old 02-16-09, 04:11 PM
  #46  
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So you could spend $19,000 on an Insight that gets 40/43 or $19,000 on a gently used Prius and make your money do some work for ya.
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Old 02-16-09, 05:49 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by habeeb89
The ext. is not so much of Honda copying, but it's a really efficient design aerodynamically, the int. I like the Honda's better. I hate that center tier speedo on the prius and some of the Scions.
I like the Prius layout better - it's more aesthetically pleasing and logical.
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Old 02-16-09, 07:11 PM
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I feel like you could put a 1.3L engine in a Corolla that put out 95 HP and you could get about what the Insight is getting here.
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Old 02-16-09, 07:18 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by SLegacy99
Why would I buy an Insight? Net HP: 98 (compared to Prius' 110, and 134 in the new model).

Fuel economy: 40/43. It would be more cost effective to get a Corolla me thinks.

http://automobiles.honda.com/insight...up=engineering
Price and sheep. The system is nowhere as advanced as the Prius. You also get a cool retro 1980s Pontiac dash with the circle vents all over. While again, I do appreciate another hybrid addition, the Honda I used to know pushed boundaries.

This is just a half *** attempt like most of their new products. But why would they not half *** it if people ****** them up irregardless of how good or bad they are?

We heard rumors of a 60 MPG Insight and the next Insight would be the new leader in class and all we get a hybrid with LESS MPG than the OLD Prius that LOOKS like the OLD Prius.

What happened to Honda? Seriously? The first Insight pushed some serious boundaries.
 
Old 02-16-09, 08:00 PM
  #50  
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So let me get this straight...The Insight doesn't even beat the Civic Hybrid's FE?? The Civic H get's 40/45!



This means that the Civic Hybrid will still remain the closest competitor to the Prius (even in price) rather than the direct copy-cat Insight aimed toward the Prius! lol
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Old 02-16-09, 08:06 PM
  #51  
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It's especially funny because Honda touts selling the first hybrids in the U.S. Now you have the Vue two mode hybrid coming with net power of around 260 HP and an estimated rating of 28/31, direct injection = a great recipe for success. Put that system in the CTS, Impala, Traverse, etc. All from a company that didnt have full hybrids until a year ago.
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Old 02-16-09, 08:26 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by SLegacy99
It's especially funny because Honda touts selling the first hybrids in the U.S. Now you have the Vue two mode hybrid coming with net power of around 260 HP and an estimated rating of 28/31, direct injection = a great recipe for success. Put that system in the CTS, Impala, Traverse, etc. All from a company that didnt have full hybrids until a year ago.
Exactly. They are fooling a lot of people that they are so fuel efficient. They do have some fuel efficient cars but Honda is no longer leaps and bounds ahead of anyone. I do believe the old CRX from 20 years ago did about 50MPG is not more!!! (true it was a lot lighter,less complicated but still).

The Ford Fusion basically gets nearly the SAME if not slightly BETTER MPG than a doggone Insight. That makes NO sense. Where is Honda leading the fuel efficient way?

Now I have read that more hybrids are coming including the CR-Z sports car hybrid which is great and I hope to see them continue to improve. However, I cannot believe Honda is so late to this party when I expected them to lead it.

Its also amazing they gave the last gen Accord a hybrid tuned for performance and have yet to give Acura anything close to a Hybrid. They blew a HUGE opportunity for Acura. They could have made it THE hybrid brand. Instead Lexus is.
 
Old 02-16-09, 08:37 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Exactly. They are fooling a lot of people that they are so fuel efficient. They do have some fuel efficient cars but Honda is no longer leaps and bounds ahead of anyone.
Oh really? Name another car company that has a zero-emissions production fuel cell vehicle riding the streets. I would say the FCX Clarity is pretty "fuel efficient" considering it uses NO fuel (gasoline), wouldn't you?

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/


Not even Toyota has figured out fuel cell vehicles (or at least, if they have, they're certainly not in the hands of real people who are driving them daily). I understand your constant frustration with Acura as a brand, but taking cheap shots at Honda at not being leaps and bounds ahead of anyone is simply inaccurate. No one else but Honda has produced a zero-emissions fuel cell vehicle, NO ONE.
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Old 02-16-09, 08:41 PM
  #54  
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Exactly. Why is the Accord hybrid's system not in the TL? 255 HP, users report average anywhere from 27 to 33 MPG. That's pretty good for a vehicle with that much power. It even had cylinder deactivation, something I think all of the 6 cylinder hybrids out there could benefit from. Perhaps the 1.4L in the Insight and Civic hybrid has had its day. I think it could be too small for its own good.


A New Hybrid Sprouts in the Shadow of the Prius
By JERRY GARRETT
IN designing the 2010 Insight, Honda’s goal was to create a hybrid car that was not just practical, but would be priced within reach of eco-conscious buyers on a budget, providing a greener choice to customers who cannot afford a Civic Hybrid or a Toyota Prius.

That may sound easy, but it was perhaps a more daunting challenge than it seems. Consider that a hybrid gasoline-electric car is a fairly complicated machine, given all its batteries, electric motors, sensors, clutches and so forth. For instance, in the current-generation Prius, 370 patents cover the drivetrain alone. No wonder most hybrids are priced thousands of dollars above the equivalent gasoline models.

Also, recent gains in the Japanese yen against the dollar are putting upward pricing pressure on the Insight, which Takeo Fukui, Honda’s president, has said he wants to hold below $20,000 for the base model.

Although Honda will not announce prices until shortly before the new Insight goes on sale in early April, the numbers take on added importance as Toyota prepares to sell a redesigned Prius, which is expected to get better mileage, later in the spring. If the Insight can’t beat the Prius on economy, it will need to be a compelling value.

Honda says the Insight will go 40 miles on a gallon in city driving and 43 on the highway. Those numbers don’t seem particularly hybridlike — the gasoline-driven Smart Fortwo is rated 33/41 — especially for a car whose namesake, the 2000-6 Insight, was renowned for an economy rating that briefly touched 70 m.p.g. (Under the recently revised government formula, the 2006 Insight would have carried a combined city-highway rating of 52 m.p.g.)

“The original Insight was a fuel-economy champ,” Kurt Antonius, an American Honda spokesman said. “But it came at the expense of practicality and price, which limited its market potential.” That original Insight was a two-seater with very limited cargo space.

The 2010 Insight, like the Prius, is a functional five-door hatchback. “The new Insight could have had better fuel economy,” the chief engineer, Yasunari Seki, told me in December. “But then it would have cost more.”

Though the new Insight gets significantly lower mileage than the original, Honda has loaded it with an array of gauges and displays intended to coach drivers to be more economical. For instance, the speedometer’s background color changes from blue to green as one’s driving becomes “more environmentally responsible.” Readouts reward the frugal driver with an “eco score”; if you excel, you win a digital trophy surrounded by a wreath.

Mind the gauges and you can optimize your mileage — often, in excess of the E.P.A. ratings. In my initial testing of the Insight, at the press preview in Arizona, I failed to beat the E.P.A. numbers. This was the case even when driving solely in “Econ” mode, which counters a driver’s most wasteful tendencies by dampening the throttle response, adjusting the air-conditioning and maximizing the electric assist.

But some other journalists who drove a similar test route said they topped 60 m.p.g. In later testing, I did as well.

So, obviously, your mileage may vary.

But even before the Insight goes on sale, Toyota may have trumped Honda’s new hybrid ace. The redesigned 2010 Prius, unveiled in January at the Detroit auto show, is said to achieve an industry-leading 50 m.p.g. And while Toyota suggests that its next Prius will beat the Insight on mileage, it is likely to cost considerably more; the 2009 Prius starts at $24,095 and can approach $28,000 fully loaded.

Beyond the matter of mileage, the Insight has other issues. Styling is one, for the stubby hatchback looks, frankly, like a knock-off of the 2004-9 Prius. Even if you don’t consider that design a bit homely, as I do, you have to concede that once the redesigned Prius is on the road, the look of the old one will start to seem stale. The Insight will be stuck wearing out-of-fashion clothes for the next five years or so.

Honda insists that it didn’t have much latitude in developing a more distinctive look. “You speak of a similarity to Prius, but the fundamentals of aerodynamics and packaging will lead designers to a similar place regardless of the brand,” Mr. Antonius said. “A Ferrari 599, Corvette and Aston Martins share similar shapes based on what their packages are trying to accomplish.”

Mr. Antonius suggested that the new Insight drew some styling cues from its namesake. Its distinctive nose evokes the FCX Clarity, an experimental Honda powered by hydrogen fuel cells.
Who wrote this article? Prius starts at $22,000.


Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
Oh really? Name another car company that has a zero-emissions production fuel cell vehicle riding the streets. I would say the FCX Clarity is pretty "fuel efficient" considering it uses NO fuel (gasoline), wouldn't you?

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/


Not even Toyota has figured out fuel cell vehicles (or at least, if they have, they're certainly not in the hands of real people who are driving them daily). I understand your constant frustration with Acura as a brand, but taking cheap shots at Honda at not being leaps and bounds ahead of anyone is simply inaccurate. No one else but Honda has produced a zero-emissions fuel cell vehicle, NO ONE.
Honda isnt the only company with hydrogen vehicles. All of the buses at Penn State run on zero emmision producing NG or Hydrogen. No gas is used.
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Old 02-16-09, 09:49 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
Oh really? Name another car company that has a zero-emissions production fuel cell vehicle riding the streets. I would say the FCX Clarity is pretty "fuel efficient" considering it uses NO fuel (gasoline), wouldn't you?

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/


Not even Toyota has figured out fuel cell vehicles (or at least, if they have, they're certainly not in the hands of real people who are driving them daily). I understand your constant frustration with Acura as a brand, but taking cheap shots at Honda at not being leaps and bounds ahead of anyone is simply inaccurate. No one else but Honda has produced a zero-emissions fuel cell vehicle, NO ONE.
I suggest sticking to the topic b/c if you attack me again you will be warned just if you attack another member. You clearly conveniently missed the part where I gave the CR-Z future props and I am sure Honda will improve as well as the Accord hybrid props.

The FCX (another Honda/Acura mistake, why does Honda have numeric names, those should be or Acura) is a great TEST STUDY. PERIOD. That is all
1. They are not sold, just leased
2. You cannot buy it when the lease is over, it must be returned for study.
3. Only 200 or so will be made. Yes 200. Your post is about 200 cars.
4. You can't drive it much anywhere as there are very few hydrogen stations. Its not a serious alternative, its just a run around car.


So overall, its a great "study" but its not even a car that should be mentioned b/c its just a study. when the masses can buy it, then post about it.

This thread is about hybrids that are SOLD not 200 studies you lease and return. Try driving your FCX cross country and see what happens. You will run out of hydrogen.

I am not taking away from the FCX, its a great accomplishment and I believe they literally cost at least a million each to produce. However, YOU CANNOT BUY IT.

Your post is then invalid. If you have a problem with me, PM me.
 
Old 02-16-09, 10:03 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by SLegacy99
So you could spend $19,000 on an Insight that gets 40/43 or $19,000 on a gently used Prius and make your money do some work for ya.
Or that. I was comparing new to new

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
I feel like you could put a 1.3L engine in a Corolla that put out 95 HP and you could get about what the Insight is getting here.
depends on the weight of the Corolla.

Originally Posted by JLSC4
So let me get this straight...The Insight doesn't even beat the Civic Hybrid's FE?? The Civic H get's 40/45!



This means that the Civic Hybrid will still remain the closest competitor to the Prius (even in price) rather than the direct copy-cat Insight aimed toward the Prius! lol
Yes but apparently (based on written and video reviews), the Insight is pretty fun to drive so that must mean they tuned the transmission a little more towards the sporty side.. Also, there are reports of 50mpg from the journalists, whom we know aren't exactly light-footed.

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
Exactly. Why is the Accord hybrid's system not in the TL? 255 HP, users report average anywhere from 27 to 33 MPG. That's pretty good for a vehicle with that much power. It even had cylinder deactivation, something I think all of the 6 cylinder hybrids out there could benefit from. Perhaps the 1.4L in the Insight and Civic hybrid has had its day. I think it could be too small for its own good.
Cause it only added 15hp and a good chunk of change which is kinda tough for the marketing department to promote as a "power" hybrid. If they marketed it as a fuel saver that just so happens to be the most powerful Accord, that might have helped a bit more than saying it's the most powerful Accord and thus it'll cost you Cdn$3k more (moonroof was removed for 2005 but added back in 2006).

I'm already surprised that the Civic Hybrid is very close to the Prius in terms of EPA mpg while using a mild hybrid setup and a 1.3 litre putting out 110hp (but less torque as the 0-60 time shows).
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Old 02-16-09, 11:15 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I suggest sticking to the topic b/c if you attack me again you will be warned just if you attack another member. You clearly conveniently missed the part where I gave the CR-Z future props and I am sure Honda will improve as well as the Accord hybrid props.
Where exactly in my post did I "attacK" you?

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The FCX (another Honda/Acura mistake, why does Honda have numeric names, those should be or Acura) is a great TEST STUDY. PERIOD. That is all
1. They are not sold, just leased
2. You cannot buy it when the lease is over, it must be returned for study.
3. Only 200 or so will be made. Yes 200. Your post is about 200 cars.
4. You can't drive it much anywhere as there are very few hydrogen stations. Its not a serious alternative, its just a run around car.


So overall, its a great "study" but its not even a car that should be mentioned b/c its just a study. when the masses can buy it, then post about it.
It's not a "study", it's a technological marvel that is only sold in southern california due to there not being hardly any hydrogen refill stations anywhere else except in that part of the country.

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
This thread is about hybrids that are SOLD not 200 studies you lease and return. Try driving your FCX cross country and see what happens. You will run out of hydrogen.
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Your post is then invalid.
It's not Honda's fault this country has not yet invested in future technologies/infrastructure. The point is, Honda produced this vehicle and it is riding around on the streets by real drivers. So my post is 100% valid.


Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I am not taking away from the FCX, its a great accomplishment and I believe they literally cost at least a million each to produce. However, YOU CANNOT BUY IT.
Ohhh, so this thread is about vehicles you can BUY and not overall technological achievements. Oh I see, I get it now. I could have sworn you mentioned how Honda was not fuel efficient and not leaps and bounds ahead of anyone. I was responding to that specific comment. Not sure how producing the first ever production 100% zero-emissions fuel cell vehicle is not fuel efficient or leaps and bounds ahead of anyone, but you go ahead and keep talking.

200 production fuel cell vehicles is better than no production fuel cell vehicles. At least it's a start and Honda is the company that started it. Deal with it, it's a fact.
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Old 02-16-09, 11:22 PM
  #58  
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Honda started the hybrid vehicle production too with the first gen Insight but look now who's leading in that game...

It's really not about who's first, it's about who can perfect it.
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Old 02-16-09, 11:24 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
Where exactly in my post did I "attacK" you?



It's not a "study", it's a technological marvel that is only sold in southern california due to there not being hardly any hydrogen refill stations anywhere else except in that part of the country.





It's not Honda's fault this country has not yet invested in future technologies/infrastructure. The point is, Honda produced this vehicle and it is riding around on the streets by real drivers. So my post is 100% valid.




Ohhh, so this thread is about vehicles you can BUY and not overall technological achievements. Oh I see, I get it now. I could have sworn you mentioned how Honda was not fuel efficient and not leaps and bounds ahead of anyone. I was responding to that specific comment. Not sure how producing the first ever production 100% zero-emissions fuel cell vehicle is not fuel efficient or leaps and bounds ahead of anyone, but you go ahead and keep talking.

200 production fuel cell vehicles is better than no production fuel cell vehicles. At least it's a start and Honda is the company that started it. Deal with it, it's a fact.
I didn't argue with you that its a techno marvel. However it has no bearing in this thread for the reasons I already mentioned. We are talking about hybrids for one, cars you can BUY secondly and you bring in a car you can lease and only 200 will be leased?

Its not Hondas fault this country doesn't have hydrogen? Name one country that has it in abundance. Exactly.

So in review thread about
1. Prius
2. Insight
3. Now FCX clarity you can't buy, only 200 are sold and only in California.

The term apples to oranges clearly applies.

I guess we should bring in all 100 or so Prius Plug in Hybrids not sold here too.

Sorry not valid.

Why can't you just admit Honda is getting its *** kicked by Toyota in hybrids and fuel efficiency, something unheard of 10-20 years ago.
 
Old 02-16-09, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The only reason to buy the INsight over the Prius is b/c it will be cheaper by about 2 grand. The Insight also gets WORSE MPG than the OLD Prius. I compliment Honda for bringing a real hybrid like the Insight but they didn't try that hard.

hahahaha. That is all.
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