TAC Acura TL review. 1 out of 5 stars.
01-24-09, 01:47 PM
#46
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Get mad at arrogant Acura execs who just publically stated they are laughing at their sheep b/c they "threaten" to leave the brand and stay. Shouldn't you be up in arms about that?
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-24-09 at 01:52 PM.
01-24-09, 02:38 PM
#47
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I also can't believe people would compare the Accord to the TL. Hell, the Accord is far inferior to the TSX. Just drive both and see for yourself.
I don't even know how the TSX and Accord can be based on each other because they feel so different. The TSX feels at least $10K more expensive.
The TL is twice the car.
I don't even know how the TSX and Accord can be based on each other because they feel so different. The TSX feels at least $10K more expensive.
The TL is twice the car.
01-24-09, 02:54 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
I don't even know how the TSX and Accord can be based on each other because they feel so different. The TSX feels at least $10K more expensive. The TL is twice the car.
As far as the TSX and Accord being based on each other, that is not true in the American market. The American-market TSX is based on the non-U.S. market Accord, which is noticeably smaller than the U.S-market Accord sold here. Honda, long ago, deterimined that Americans wouldn't want the non-U.S-version of the Accord (it was too small) and marketed accordingly. So they made it the Acura entry-level sedan (TSX) instead. Even so, the new TSX is still noticeably larger than the 2008 model.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-24-09 at 03:42 PM.
01-24-09, 03:17 PM
#49
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I also can't believe people would compare the Accord to the TL. Hell, the Accord is far inferior to the TSX. Just drive both and see for yourself.
I don't even know how the TSX and Accord can be based on each other because they feel so different. The TSX feels at least $10K more expensive.
The TL is twice the car.
I don't even know how the TSX and Accord can be based on each other because they feel so different. The TSX feels at least $10K more expensive.
The TL is twice the car.
Acura TSX-Euro Accord with ugly Acura grill added, global midsize platform
Acura TL-based on USDM Accord, global midsize platform
Acura RL-based on global midsize platform
The new Accord makes the TSX look really silly. It costs the same, you get more power, not much less MPG and its bigger and not as ugly.
As for the TL, its just as big and looks better and probably only loses a couple points here and there.
Acura's problem is their sedans are not much better than the Accord and they are all based on or rebadged Accords. The new Accord is SUPERB, it still sets the bar AND some.
The question is, is when were these sales goals made? This is the worse car sales climate in over 25 years and is only a recent event. There's no way in hell that Acura could sell 70K a year even if the new TL was loved by everyone. The Lexus ES, the 3rd best selling car in the segment, didn't even move that many in '08 (64,135) and the first three quarters were a good market. The C-Class, the 2nd best selling in the segment, sold 72,471 in '08.
You HAVE to look at all sales of the cars in competing segments to determine what success is, not what an automakers original sales plan is because the market constantly changes and this economy is unprecedented.
The other issue you are ignoring is everyone else's sales goals. NO ONE is meeting original sales plans. The whole industry went down around 35% overnight. So is everything else a failure? It is by your definition.
You seem to be expecting Acura alone to be completely resistant to this financial meltdown. And please don't say that it's not relevant.
I don't mean to beat this issue into the ground but we need to make clear what is actually going on.
You HAVE to look at all sales of the cars in competing segments to determine what success is, not what an automakers original sales plan is because the market constantly changes and this economy is unprecedented.
The other issue you are ignoring is everyone else's sales goals. NO ONE is meeting original sales plans. The whole industry went down around 35% overnight. So is everything else a failure? It is by your definition.
You seem to be expecting Acura alone to be completely resistant to this financial meltdown. And please don't say that it's not relevant.
I don't mean to beat this issue into the ground but we need to make clear what is actually going on.
You would THINK they do better than other brands since they have the cheapest lineup around.
I didn't set the 70k sales goal. Acura did. Go huff and puff at them.
You have NO evidence of other carmakers NOT meeting sales goals so don't state it.
01-24-09, 03:40 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
The new Accord makes the TSX look really silly. It costs the same, you get more power, not much less MPG and its bigger and not as ugly.
As for the TL, its just as big and looks better and probably only loses a couple points here and there.
Acura's problem is their sedans are not much better than the Accord and they are all based on or rebadged Accords. The new Accord is SUPERB, it still sets the bar AND some.
As for the TL, its just as big and looks better and probably only loses a couple points here and there.
Acura's problem is their sedans are not much better than the Accord and they are all based on or rebadged Accords. The new Accord is SUPERB, it still sets the bar AND some.
What Honda needs to do is to either put the SH-AWD system on the Accord as an option or come up with a vehicle like the new Toyota Venza.
01-24-09, 05:58 PM
#51
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R U serious? The TSX is an Accord, just a Euro Accord. We get a nice ugly grill instead.
Acura TSX-Euro Accord with ugly Acura grill added, global midsize platform
Acura TL-based on USDM Accord, global midsize platform
Acura RL-based on global midsize platform
The new Accord makes the TSX look really silly. It costs the same, you get more power, not much less MPG and its bigger and not as ugly.
As for the TL, its just as big and looks better and probably only loses a couple points here and there.
Acura's problem is their sedans are not much better than the Accord and they are all based on or rebadged Accords. The new Accord is SUPERB, it still sets the bar AND some.
Acura sales were down the last 2 years. Now its down 3 years in a row. Acura's problems began BEFORE the credit crunch.
You would THINK they do better than other brands since they have the cheapest lineup around.
I didn't set the 70k sales goal. Acura did. Go huff and puff at them.
You have NO evidence of other carmakers NOT meeting sales goals so don't state it.
Acura TSX-Euro Accord with ugly Acura grill added, global midsize platform
Acura TL-based on USDM Accord, global midsize platform
Acura RL-based on global midsize platform
The new Accord makes the TSX look really silly. It costs the same, you get more power, not much less MPG and its bigger and not as ugly.
As for the TL, its just as big and looks better and probably only loses a couple points here and there.
Acura's problem is their sedans are not much better than the Accord and they are all based on or rebadged Accords. The new Accord is SUPERB, it still sets the bar AND some.
Acura sales were down the last 2 years. Now its down 3 years in a row. Acura's problems began BEFORE the credit crunch.
You would THINK they do better than other brands since they have the cheapest lineup around.
I didn't set the 70k sales goal. Acura did. Go huff and puff at them.
You have NO evidence of other carmakers NOT meeting sales goals so don't state it.
I know that the TSX is the Accord in Europe but it isn't here. Europeans always get the better cars. I drove both back to back and will tell you that there is very little similarity. I drive these cars for a living.
As for the sales goal thing, do you really believe any automakers are achieving goals set before the financial collapse with a few possible exceptions?
Acura, with only it's 5 models, still outsells Audi with more than twice the lineup as well as Infiniti and Volvo also with more models. I wouldn't consider those brands failures, so why is Acura? I'm just kind of boggled as to why a small brand like Acura is supposed to be this higher volume maker like BMW.
01-24-09, 07:04 PM
#52
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You're killing me Mike.
I know that the TSX is the Accord in Europe but it isn't here. Europeans always get the better cars. I drove both back to back and will tell you that there is very little similarity. I drive these cars for a living.
As for the sales goal thing, do you really believe any automakers are achieving goals set before the financial collapse with a few possible exceptions?
Acura, with only it's 5 models, still outsells Audi with more than twice the lineup as well as Infiniti and Volvo also with more models. I wouldn't consider those brands failures, so why is Acura? I'm just kind of boggled as to why a small brand like Acura is supposed to be this higher volume maker like BMW.
I know that the TSX is the Accord in Europe but it isn't here. Europeans always get the better cars. I drove both back to back and will tell you that there is very little similarity. I drive these cars for a living.
As for the sales goal thing, do you really believe any automakers are achieving goals set before the financial collapse with a few possible exceptions?
Acura, with only it's 5 models, still outsells Audi with more than twice the lineup as well as Infiniti and Volvo also with more models. I wouldn't consider those brands failures, so why is Acura? I'm just kind of boggled as to why a small brand like Acura is supposed to be this higher volume maker like BMW.
Infiniti has never sold much here either until recently and more a niche brand. Volvo at least offers a V-8, sales are paltry.
Why mention struggling brands? Why compare to those brands? Again, Acura HAS THE CHEAPEST PRODUCT, so they SHOULD sell more.
Getting back to the review, again, the new TL is so ugly that it simply overshadows its other merits. We all know Acura makes competent cars, they are not bad vehicles.
01-24-09, 08:01 PM
#53
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mike, i disagree that the accord sets the class benchmark. In the last gen, yes, but the camry and passat are more appealing on many fronts. 09 Camry > 09 accord. The tables have turned imo.
01-24-09, 08:06 PM
#54
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i own two accords, btw. I am not the least bit impressed by the latest "enlarged" boat gen. Nothing really new over the previous gen but size and a cheaper interior.
01-24-09, 09:04 PM
#55
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A3 - $27K
A4 - $31K
TT - $35K
And only Audi's S-line, A-8, and R-8 exceed Acura prices.
01-24-09, 09:49 PM
#56
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The A4 starts at 31k and my goodness goes to 80k with the RS4. The new A4 hits 50k easy, not even the S4. The TL is what 35k-44k (fyi no one is going to buy a 40k TL)
The TT goes from 35k-over 50k.
Its not even a close comparison.
A5/S5 costs more than the RL with options
A6 costs more than the RL period
R8 costs twice as much as any Acura
A8/S8 costs more than any Acura. SOme twice as much as any Acura.
Q7 costs more than any Acura SUV
Q5 will cost more than the RDX and more than the MDX with options.
Audi is a luxury brand. Acura is not. Thus the difference in product and prices.
01-25-09, 01:21 AM
#57
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Come on SICK.
How can a car be hated by EVERYONE and be an absolute epic fail when it is SELLING MORE SUCCESSFULLY than.......
(December sales figures)
Lexus IS: 3539
Lexus GS: 1200
Infiniti M: 1194
Audi A6: 1218
Lincoln MKS: 2100
Lincoln MKZ: 2089
MB E-class: 3464
(Acura TL: 3607)
And these cars that beat the TL's sales didn't do it by much more....
BMW 5-series: 3699
Caddy CTS: 4296
Infiniti G sedan: 3929
Audi A4: 3854
The only 3 cars that really sell a good amount more is the usual 3 series, C-Class, and ES
I hate to have to point out these numbers Mike, but they PROVE that the TL is drawing plenty of customers and selling successfully.
Just one favor Mike, please go test drive a new TL-AWD. After doing so, you will be forced to retract all previous statements. You'll love it.
How can a car be hated by EVERYONE and be an absolute epic fail when it is SELLING MORE SUCCESSFULLY than.......
(December sales figures)
Lexus IS: 3539
Lexus GS: 1200
Infiniti M: 1194
Audi A6: 1218
Lincoln MKS: 2100
Lincoln MKZ: 2089
MB E-class: 3464
(Acura TL: 3607)
And these cars that beat the TL's sales didn't do it by much more....
BMW 5-series: 3699
Caddy CTS: 4296
Infiniti G sedan: 3929
Audi A4: 3854
The only 3 cars that really sell a good amount more is the usual 3 series, C-Class, and ES
I hate to have to point out these numbers Mike, but they PROVE that the TL is drawing plenty of customers and selling successfully.
Just one favor Mike, please go test drive a new TL-AWD. After doing so, you will be forced to retract all previous statements. You'll love it.
Wow, I'm surprised the TL is selling that well in spite of the controversial design. Especially over the IS. I dont care what their goal may have been, the scoreboard is still the scoreboard.
01-25-09, 01:23 AM
#58
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cheap shot and a biased review. yes, we know it's ulgy, but that's all he said about the car.
01-25-09, 06:28 AM
#59
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IDK, it is getting closer. I don't think the tables have turned, yet. I do agree that if honda wants to stay on top, they will need to step up their game. Competition is getting tough.
01-25-09, 06:33 AM
#60
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Thank you. All original sales goals aren't even worth looking at. You HAVE to look at what the whole industry is doing and gauge success that way. Yes, different models have different sales targets, but overall, key competitors sales are a good gauge on where you stand. The TL is sitting comfortably in the middle of it's class. Who decided that it should sell like a 3-series?