TAC Acura TL review. 1 out of 5 stars.
01-25-09, 06:50 AM
#61
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Most TL's sell at $38-$43K. Few buy the base model. Most of our sales are FWD Tech's and AWD-Tech's.
Mike, you can't continue putting opinion over real numbers.
Your reasoning suggests that NO ONE buys......
Lexus IS
Lexus GS
Infiniti M
Infiniti G
Lincoln MKS
Lincoln MKZ
MB E-class
BMW 5-series
Caddy CTS
Audi A4
Audi A6
The TL is a legitimate $40K LUXURY car that sells as well or better than all the above competition.
Basic math.
Mike, you can't continue putting opinion over real numbers.
Your reasoning suggests that NO ONE buys......
Lexus IS
Lexus GS
Infiniti M
Infiniti G
Lincoln MKS
Lincoln MKZ
MB E-class
BMW 5-series
Caddy CTS
Audi A4
Audi A6
The TL is a legitimate $40K LUXURY car that sells as well or better than all the above competition.
Basic math.
01-25-09, 08:45 AM
#62
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Most TL's sell at $38-$43K. Few buy the base model. Most of our sales are FWD Tech's and AWD-Tech's.
Mike, you can't continue putting opinion over real numbers.
Your reasoning suggests that NO ONE buys......
Lexus IS
Lexus GS
Infiniti M
Infiniti G
Lincoln MKS
Lincoln MKZ
MB E-class
BMW 5-series
Caddy CTS
Audi A4
Audi A6
The TL is a legitimate $40K LUXURY car that sells as well or better than all the above competition.
Basic math.
Mike, you can't continue putting opinion over real numbers.
Your reasoning suggests that NO ONE buys......
Lexus IS
Lexus GS
Infiniti M
Infiniti G
Lincoln MKS
Lincoln MKZ
MB E-class
BMW 5-series
Caddy CTS
Audi A4
Audi A6
The TL is a legitimate $40K LUXURY car that sells as well or better than all the above competition.
Basic math.
Stop mentioning other cars especially cars a class above it that will sell in smaller quantities. Though Amazingly the new Tl sucks so bad, the MUCH MORE expensive 5 series and E-class outsell it and will continue to do so.
The TL sales goal has been 70k for at least 5 years now.
Taking your philosophy "the scoreboard is the scoreboard" would mean Acura is in the development league, not the real game.
You want to compare sales goals, again READ what I wrote. The ES/TL sales goals have been the same for years. The ES/TL have swapped best selling in class the last 5 years or so.
01-25-09, 09:14 AM
#63
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You have no data to say most are sold at the price you stated. So don't state it. The TL IS NOT a legitimate 40k luxury car, where do you get this from? Acura themselves stated 80% sold will be FWD models and 20% SH-AWD. You need to read up on your own brand b/c you are getting eaten alive out here.
Stop mentioning other cars especially cars a class above it that will sell in smaller quantities. Though Amazingly the new Tl sucks so bad, the MUCH MORE expensive 5 series and E-class outsell it and will continue to do so.
I think you and JLSC4 need to take a business course. The IS sales goal was 44k when it debuted. They sold 60k. They continue to sell around 60k for 3 years now with not much drop off from previous years. Lexus doesn't have the production capacity to build more here.
The TL sales goal has been 70k for at least 5 years now.
Taking your philosophy "the scoreboard is the scoreboard" would mean Acura is in the development league, not the real game.
You want to compare sales goals, again READ what I wrote. The ES/TL sales goals have been the same for years. The ES/TL have swapped best selling in class the last 5 years or so.
Stop mentioning other cars especially cars a class above it that will sell in smaller quantities. Though Amazingly the new Tl sucks so bad, the MUCH MORE expensive 5 series and E-class outsell it and will continue to do so.
I think you and JLSC4 need to take a business course. The IS sales goal was 44k when it debuted. They sold 60k. They continue to sell around 60k for 3 years now with not much drop off from previous years. Lexus doesn't have the production capacity to build more here.
The TL sales goal has been 70k for at least 5 years now.
Taking your philosophy "the scoreboard is the scoreboard" would mean Acura is in the development league, not the real game.
You want to compare sales goals, again READ what I wrote. The ES/TL sales goals have been the same for years. The ES/TL have swapped best selling in class the last 5 years or so.
I could really care less how much they say they want to sell. I'm sure they all want to sell thousands and live in happy land. Numbers of vehicles sold is a quantifiable fact, and like I said, it impressed me that it outsold the IS. Are you actually trying to argue based off acura having loftier goals than others?
01-25-09, 09:51 AM
#65
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You have no data to say most are sold at the price you stated. So don't state it. The TL IS NOT a legitimate 40k luxury car, where do you get this from? Acura themselves stated 80% sold will be FWD models and 20% SH-AWD. You need to read up on your own brand b/c you are getting eaten alive out here.
Stop mentioning other cars especially cars a class above it that will sell in smaller quantities. Though Amazingly the new Tl sucks so bad, the MUCH MORE expensive 5 series and E-class outsell it and will continue to do so.
I think you and JLSC4 need to take a business course. The IS sales goal was 44k when it debuted. They sold 60k. They continue to sell around 60k for 3 years now with not much drop off from previous years. Lexus doesn't have the production capacity to build more here.
The TL sales goal has been 70k for at least 5 years now.
Taking your philosophy "the scoreboard is the scoreboard" would mean Acura is in the development league, not the real game.
You want to compare sales goals, again READ what I wrote. The ES/TL sales goals have been the same for years. The ES/TL have swapped best selling in class the last 5 years or so.
Stop mentioning other cars especially cars a class above it that will sell in smaller quantities. Though Amazingly the new Tl sucks so bad, the MUCH MORE expensive 5 series and E-class outsell it and will continue to do so.
I think you and JLSC4 need to take a business course. The IS sales goal was 44k when it debuted. They sold 60k. They continue to sell around 60k for 3 years now with not much drop off from previous years. Lexus doesn't have the production capacity to build more here.
The TL sales goal has been 70k for at least 5 years now.
Taking your philosophy "the scoreboard is the scoreboard" would mean Acura is in the development league, not the real game.
You want to compare sales goals, again READ what I wrote. The ES/TL sales goals have been the same for years. The ES/TL have swapped best selling in class the last 5 years or so.
I simply do not care what sales goals are or were when the auto industry is hanging on by a thread. If you look at sales goals only, then everyone is failing.
I mention two classes of cars because the TL kind of plays in the middle. That's just what Acura does. A 5-series starts only $3K higher than a TL-awd tech so the comparison isn't absurd.
Can you look up the sales goals for every competitor if you think they're so important? We're so focused on the TL not meeting original goals but what about everyone else? I can assure you that nobody is meeting them.
01-25-09, 10:33 AM
#66
Lexus Champion
This is an interesting debate. It's hard to disagree with the actual sales numbers, especially with the current situation in the auto industry. Any sale is a good one right now.
01-25-09, 10:36 AM
#67
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I could really care less how much they say they want to sell. I'm sure they all want to sell thousands and live in happy land. Numbers of vehicles sold is a quantifiable fact, and like I said, it impressed me that it outsold the IS. Are you actually trying to argue based off acura having loftier goals than others?
Another reason is Lexus has 2 vehicles in this segment, the ES and IS. The ES continues to be the volume leader. The IS is a lot smaller with interior room in comparison to the ES or TL.
Another reason is price. The IS is the more expensive car. It starts at 32k up to nearly 55k with F-sport parts. Add the IS-F and it gets to nearly 65k.
Again, when you want to compare TL sales to a Lexus, the ES is the choice as the ES has the same sales goals. The TL and ES have gone back and forth as the #1 seller for years now.
Saying you are impressed the TL outsells the IS is like saying "I'm impressed the Accord outsells the 911". Both cars have different sales goals.
Now if the IS had a sales goal of 70k in America like the TL and the TL beat it, then we can say "the TL is the better selling vehicle".
On the contrary lets look at RL sales for the first year. Acura wanted to sell 20k. they sold 16k its first year. The LS in its first year was expected to sell 25k and they sold I believe around 32k. So yes the LS (a much much more expensive car) outsold the RL but both have different sales goals so saying "the LS outsells the RL" is only about bragging rights.
01-25-09, 11:59 AM
#68
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So the Ford F-series was down 25% in 2008 from 2007 clearly not meeting "sales goals" for the year even with the newly redesigned model making up some sales. Nevertheless, Ford moved 515,513 (690,589 in '07) units still making it the best selling vehicle on planet earth.
Mike, by your definition, the F-series is a failure. After all, it missed goals by a couple hundred thousand units (more than most vehicles sell total). But wait, it's still the most successful vehicle in the world!
Am I starting to get to you SICK?
Mike, by your definition, the F-series is a failure. After all, it missed goals by a couple hundred thousand units (more than most vehicles sell total). But wait, it's still the most successful vehicle in the world!
Am I starting to get to you SICK?
01-25-09, 12:19 PM
#69
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So the Ford F-series was down 25% in 2008 from 2007 clearly not meeting "sales goals" for the year even with the newly redesigned model making up some sales. Nevertheless, Ford moved 515,513 (690,589 in '07) units still making it the best selling vehicle on planet earth.
Mike, by your definition, the F-series is a failure. After all, it missed goals by a couple hundred thousand units (more than most vehicles sell total). But wait, it's still the most successful vehicle in the world!
Am I starting to get to you SICK?
Mike, by your definition, the F-series is a failure. After all, it missed goals by a couple hundred thousand units (more than most vehicles sell total). But wait, it's still the most successful vehicle in the world!
Am I starting to get to you SICK?
2008 144,504
2007 180,104
2006 201,223
2005 209,610
Year-end Acura sales of 209,610 units, up 5.7 percent, shattered the previous annual sales record of 198,919 set in 2004, making 2005 the best year in Acura's sales history.
Instead of bishing with me, maybe you need to read this thread and go write a letter or slap your Acura executives who clearly are clueless and now show complete arrogance to their loyal Acura fans. I'm not the problem, Acura is their own problem.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...says-exec.html
This is VERY alarming.
Mendel is quick to say he doesn’t discount the opinions of some of Acura’s most fervent fans. But after years of threats to leave the brand, they’re still hanging on.
The people who are vowing to abandon Acura now are “the same guys who were going to (Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.’s) Infiniti because we didn’t put a V-6 in the TSX (midsize sedan), and when we dropped the RSX (compact coupe in 2006),” he says
He is saying to you and Acura buyers we laugh at your threats,we know you will buy our product because you buy Acuras period.
Utterly and completely pathetic.
Last edited by LexFather; 01-25-09 at 12:26 PM.
01-25-09, 02:20 PM
#70
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Let me talk to you slowly since I am trying to help you understand how the business works. There is a mixture of reasons why a company sets a sales goal. One major reason is PRODUCTION CAPACITY. Lexus does not have the additional production capacity to build more IS's for America and its sold worldwide as well.
Another reason is Lexus has 2 vehicles in this segment, the ES and IS. The ES continues to be the volume leader. The IS is a lot smaller with interior room in comparison to the ES or TL.
Another reason is price. The IS is the more expensive car. It starts at 32k up to nearly 55k with F-sport parts. Add the IS-F and it gets to nearly 65k.
Again, when you want to compare TL sales to a Lexus, the ES is the choice as the ES has the same sales goals. The TL and ES have gone back and forth as the #1 seller for years now.
Saying you are impressed the TL outsells the IS is like saying "I'm impressed the Accord outsells the 911". Both cars have different sales goals.
Now if the IS had a sales goal of 70k in America like the TL and the TL beat it, then we can say "the TL is the better selling vehicle".
On the contrary lets look at RL sales for the first year. Acura wanted to sell 20k. they sold 16k its first year. The LS in its first year was expected to sell 25k and they sold I believe around 32k. So yes the LS (a much much more expensive car) outsold the RL but both have different sales goals so saying "the LS outsells the RL" is only about bragging rights.
Another reason is Lexus has 2 vehicles in this segment, the ES and IS. The ES continues to be the volume leader. The IS is a lot smaller with interior room in comparison to the ES or TL.
Another reason is price. The IS is the more expensive car. It starts at 32k up to nearly 55k with F-sport parts. Add the IS-F and it gets to nearly 65k.
Again, when you want to compare TL sales to a Lexus, the ES is the choice as the ES has the same sales goals. The TL and ES have gone back and forth as the #1 seller for years now.
Saying you are impressed the TL outsells the IS is like saying "I'm impressed the Accord outsells the 911". Both cars have different sales goals.
Now if the IS had a sales goal of 70k in America like the TL and the TL beat it, then we can say "the TL is the better selling vehicle".
On the contrary lets look at RL sales for the first year. Acura wanted to sell 20k. they sold 16k its first year. The LS in its first year was expected to sell 25k and they sold I believe around 32k. So yes the LS (a much much more expensive car) outsold the RL but both have different sales goals so saying "the LS outsells the RL" is only about bragging rights.
Were not comparing 911 to an accord either, these are cars in the relatively same market segment targeting the same audience - luxury upscale sport sedans. But you can dice it anyway you want so that it makes you feel better.
01-25-09, 02:59 PM
#71
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I'll put it to you simply as well, and I cant believe I need to spell it out. As ugly as I think the TL is, I'm surprised that it actually sold so well. It's that simple, why cant you get that simple point? I would expect you to agree 200 goddamn percent.
Were not comparing 911 to an accord either, these are cars in the relatively same market segment targeting the same audience - luxury upscale sport sedans. But you can dice it anyway you want so that it makes you feel better.
Were not comparing 911 to an accord either, these are cars in the relatively same market segment targeting the same audience - luxury upscale sport sedans. But you can dice it anyway you want so that it makes you feel better.
There is nothing to dice, its not selling well and it will only sell worse as the competition brings updates and new vehicles out. The TL styling will only age poorly as its done so bad. Their only saving grace might be 0% financing or some $349 lease deals to help push the car. Here I am (again) the only one posting facts to back up claims.
December 08
Entry-Level
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
November 08
(funny I see now JLSC4 doesn't understand sales goals b/c I told him the same damn there here https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-thread-5.html)
Entry-Level
1. 3 - 6,645
2. G35/37 - 4,457
3. C - 4,422
4. ES - 4,116
5. A4/5 - 3,873
6. TL - 3,160
7. CTS - 2,902
8. IS - 2,749
9. MKZ - 1,805
10. 9-3 - 606
11. S60 - 431
October 08
1. 3 - 9,059
2. A4/5 - 4,649
3. C - 4,594
4. TL - 4,340
5. ES - 4,141
6. CTS - 3,997
7. G35/37 - 3,637
8. IS - 2,772
9. MKZ - 1,309
10. 9-3 - 1,471
11. S60 - 612
September 08
Entry-Level
1. C - 6,772
2. 3 - 6,303
3. CTS - 4,360
4. A4/5 - 4,214
5. ES - 4,042
6. G35/37 - 3,797
7. IS - 3,044
8. TL - 3,017
9. MKZ - 1,578
10. 9-3 - 1,281
11. S60 - 470
Now, again, why are so pissed at me? I'm not making the decisions for Acura. Do you like getting pissed on? B/C Acura is pissing on you looking at WHAT THEY SAID No response huh?
Mendel is quick to say he doesn’t discount the opinions of some of Acura’s most fervent fans. But after years of threats to leave the brand, they’re still hanging on.
The people who are vowing to abandon Acura now are “the same guys who were going to (Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.’s) Infiniti because we didn’t put a V-6 in the TSX (midsize sedan), and when we dropped the RSX (compact coupe in 2006),” he says
01-25-09, 04:04 PM
#72
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There haven't been '08's on the lots for months. I also deal with dealer swaps/locates and know this.
But anyway, I'm exiting this Acura hater thread as it is the 6 millionth one on CL this year. I've been insulted one to many times.
Bye.
But anyway, I'm exiting this Acura hater thread as it is the 6 millionth one on CL this year. I've been insulted one to many times.
Bye.
01-25-09, 04:36 PM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
I'm sorry you feel that way, but don't include me as an "Acura-Hater". There are some things about them I don't like (like the ridiculous new grilles), but that is the case with any vehicle. If I was to buy a new vehicle today, Honda/Acura would be among the top five companies I'd consider....along with Subaru, Toyota/Lexus, and even a couple of new models from Ford and GM.
01-25-09, 05:12 PM
#74
Lexus Champion
I enjoy TAC reviews since they say some things that are just too off the cuff and honest for most other editorials.
But with that said I never go by their 'star' ratings or rankings... instead I just try to learn something new from the facts presented and opinions stated. The ratings themselves are way too inconsistent... sometimes they even test the same car twice and rate them wildly opposite of each other.
Yes they usually have an explanation, but I think the real reason is their reviews are more emotional than objective.
But with that said I never go by their 'star' ratings or rankings... instead I just try to learn something new from the facts presented and opinions stated. The ratings themselves are way too inconsistent... sometimes they even test the same car twice and rate them wildly opposite of each other.
Yes they usually have an explanation, but I think the real reason is their reviews are more emotional than objective.
01-25-09, 05:20 PM
#75
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