mmarshall

What's wrong with the new Civic, besides (I'll admit) its obviously-downgraded, cost-cut, too-much-plastic interior? It always was, and, IMO, still is, assembled at the factory like a Swiss Watch. It also offers a very wide range of models, from entry-level to LX/EX to Si to HF fuel-miser to hybrid to even natural-gas.


Yep......and I'm one of them.


The Jetta hasn't always delivered in the reliability department. Consumer Reports rates it up and down in reliability over the years, depending on model.

mmarshall

People also want reliability. The Jetta hasn't always delivered in that department (see my reply to Mike just above). But, in general, it has been more reliable than some other American-market VWs.

Blackraven

The way I view the current Corolla is: Safe vehicle but nothing fantastic or exciting.

Compare this


to something like this



I think between the two, I know where I would spend my money first

IS350jet

Which begs the question, do *all* Corollas have it?

Sulu

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Really, what is the difference between the two? Other than the fact that one is a Toyota compact sedan and the other a Ford compact wagon? So many people like to bash Toyotas for bland styling but I really do not see a difference.

...And if the swoopy outside styling affects interior space or usability (i.e. form dictates function), that is not something I personally like. I believe that a high beltline / low seating is dangerous because it negatively affects visibility and it can make the back seat very claustrophobic, especially for small children.

Sulu

Do all current-generation Corollas have the trunklid insulation pad? I believe so, at least in Canadian Corollas. My father's 2010 Corolla CE has it.

I was surprised recently when I noticed a current-generation Accord with its trunklid open and noticing that it was bare metal, with no insulation. (I could not tell from the distance whether it was a 4- or 6-cylinder model.)

-J-P-L-

Funny how this American Ford isn't even available in America. The wagon that is. We only get the sedan and hatch. Apparently, Ford believes Americans won't buy wagons.

Blackraven

Okay I respect your opinion.....but generally, the Ford looks more exciting and dynamic. Same goes with Chevy Cruze and Mitsubishi Lancer EX.

As I've said, the Corolla is not a bad vehicle. I've driven one myself (as a driving test vehicle and it felt real good). The sales number worldwide also reflect its success.

However, as a vehicle that I would want to own and actually shell money for, picking the Corolla is definitely not my priority. When I'm looking for a car in this segment, I want something that also gives me thrill and excitement as well as serves as a reflection of my lifestyle.

I guess I'm saying that the Corolla is a great vehicle and always has been. However, if the criteria is something that "based on exterior design", then the Corolla is just an average vehicle. Not bad but not dynamic or something that would make you go like "wow, such a stylish and edgy compact car".

As much as I humbly respect your opinion, I personally would have to disagree with it (and I believe many on this forum may think the same as well).

Yeah, sad but true. Hence the reason why the likes Volvo, Audi and even BMW are not bringing wagons there anymore.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Americans don't buy boxy wagons.

Wagons that do seem to sell are the ones that have a more hatchback design (Matrix, Venza, etc.)

I would buy a wagon over any cross over or SUV but I'm the minority.

mmarshall

Wrong. There are a number of wagons that sell well (or reasonably well) here in the U.S. And just look at all the people who buy Subaru Forester and Outback wagons......both of which are having excellent sales-years. The Outback sold even me......and I'm a tough guy to please......

So would I. And so would a number of others I know. This view that Americans won't buy wagons is vastly over-rated, and is pushed mainly by the automotive-press.

The most useful wagons, though, are those with AWD and a slightly higher ground-clearance for deep snow and obstacle-clearance on the road, like the Forester, Outback, Venza, Crosstour, Volvo XC-70, etc.... (though the Crosstour, IMO, blew it with the rounded, droop-down rear end).

mmarshall

An excellent point. One cannot argue with that kind of success. Same goes for the Honda Civic...and the Civic comes in a wider variey of versions than the Corolla does.


Once again (as I mentioned in my last post, just above), the auto press paints a false picture of wagons here in the U.S. The Volvo XC70 Cross-Country wagon, for instance, is very popular here, though it admittedly doesn't equal the numbers of Subaru Outback/Forester sales. And, while this may or may not be the case nationwide, I see a fair number of BMW 3 and 5-series wagons here in the D.C. area.

LexBob2

I don't think the automotive press can be blamed for the dismal sales of wagons in the U.S. Most of the reviews done on them (Audi, MB, VW etc.) are favorable and the reviewers mention how practical they really are without giving up any driving dynamics.

Car buyers in the U.S. are buying CUV's and SUV's as an alternative to wagons and mfgrs and dealers can't afford to have wagon inventory sitting around gathering dust. It's a shame because they really do make a lot sense. I'd buy one but don't want to take the hit at trade in time.

mmarshall

I agree that the wagon reviews aren't always bad. What I was referring to, though, was the fact that the automotive press often spreads the (false) idea that Americans won't buy wagons, not that the wagons themselves are bad.

wntrwhte

I have to say that the taillights on the new corolla really annoy me.

It's like they looked at a mazda rx8 and said "lets put those taillights...on a corolla." It's like it comes already altezza-ed out from the factory.

How about this: make a nice, sleek looking basic sedan. Don't go nuts with the exterior, just make it simple (and no, I don't mean "make it look like a baby camry" I mean just make the styling inoffensive and smooth looking) and then spend all the rest of the money on giving it some worthwhile parts.

Get rid of the crap automatic transmission, dig out one of the old, reliable but powerful engines. Get rid of the torsion beam rear suspension, get 4 wheel disk brakes. Spend a lot of money on interior materials.

Reality is, when I buy a cheap car, what irritates me most about it is how it reminds me daily how cheap it is.

When you think about how cheap it would be to take the materials from the inside of a, say, 2000 ES300 and put them in a corolla now, there is no reason to be using a bunch of cheap chinese plastic.

/end rant. I don't think the focus is the answer because it has too many electronic bells and whistles that I don't think will hold up. But the inside of the chevy cruze is gorgeous even if the car is mediocre.

mmarshall

Would you be willing to actually spend more for a Corolla if they make it more sophisticated and plush?

You have to remember that Toyota designed and markets this car for the masses, not for auto-enthusiasts or sport/luxury-car afficionados. That, at least partly, accounts for its huge sales-figures all over the planet.