gshb

you need effort to succeed.

im sure the genesis is a nice car, but theres no focus. like bmw is to performance or lexus to reliability. one day they say lets attack the 5/E/GS and build a car. they have the know how, no doubt. then they say lets attack the performance coupe? are they just following where the money is? thats not passion.

people want to know that their car has hand sanded paint jobs. they want to know that the technology in it came from racing experience. that someone with a microphone was measuring how loud the engine is or that their talent creates innovation.

it doesnt matter what your badge is. people can see, especially people like us on forums, where thought was put in. like how mizuno never gave in to say this is good enough. or toyota when creating not just a new brand or new car, but a new way to build them, to service them, and to sell them.

the genesis could be a nice car, but the way hyundai treats it is same as they would the santa fe or elantra. like their azera commercials trumpeting more interior room than a bmw 7 series! thats not why the 7 series sells. call it marketing if you want, but it matters. luxury cars arent (or shouldnt) be built with cost in mind. thats what commodity cars are for. and thats the appeal of luxury. they are built with you in mind. your wants. your needs. not just a box with wheels taking you to places for as little as possible.

thats why i respect brands like lexus and bmw. they are leaders in their craft at creating cars with a purpose. im sure the genesis is a nice car, but i cant help but see it as a follower to whoever their competition is. built with cost in mind. i wish i could say that maybe hyundai is changing, but after watching their super bowl ads, its clear they havent. and it might be ashame.

XprincoX

iTrader: (10)

^ nicely said.

It's like those C-class commercials "100 yrs of racing heritage..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVGjYmUyrO8

First look at the genesis coupe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuagzknN_BQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiV0BK2591I

joe80

LOL. are you guys serious? that's what commercial is all about. 20-30 seconds of fame.

Hyundai just wants your attention. whatever they say is all about 'look at me.' and that's what they have to do gain some respect.

remember hyundai is competing against honyotas. not lexus and bmw's. they are not a luxury brand and they know it. just think about it. they want to be next toyota or honda. volume sellers. they could careless about german's or lexus. they sell more than them! since they didn't chose to go for luxury, they just decided to 'let's change hyundai first' then worry about luxury cars. sure genesis is a luxury car, but they know it's competing against avalons of the world and maybe some lexus, but not against big 3's.

and whenever they do create luxury brand(i bet they will within next 10-15 years), then they will create a luxury marketing. something more focused, something more classy. right now, it's all bout hyundai trying to change the perception. and it's working.

joe80

they know they ARE NOT A LUXURY BRAND. they mention luxury cars on every one of their ads to raise the awareness of hyundai. their intention is to completely eradicate people's bad perceptions. i think it's much smarter move then creating a new luxury brand. they need to establish hyundai first before they jump to luxury market. if hyundai is still ****ty in people's mind then making luxury brand becomes very risky move. but maybe after 5-10 years later when hyundai up there with nissan then they can confidently step up and invest on luxury line, genesis.

JKA.nyc

It's not the luxury badge I care about, it's the principle that I'm looking for. To me, like I said creating a luxury brand is more of a display of dedication to the consumer and the concept of luxury, otherwise the whole thing just seems half assed to me. As for resources I'm pretty confident they could acquire it if they wanted to, whether they'll be successful or not though is the risk that you'd have to take regarding any type of business endeavor, no?

The fact that Hyundai is not willing to take that risk doesn't read well in my book, and for that I will never consider any car they make luxury. Seriously though, the Genesis looks like a good car albeit its borrowed looks, wouldn't it have been the perfect flagship for the launch of a separate luxury line?

This is exactly why I want them to start a separate luxury brand, as of right now I'm under the impression that theyr'e just out for cash, with no passion for their product, only attacking the most profitable market segments trying to make as much without giving up anything. Where's the principle in that? You guys know for a fact that BMW builds their cars with a passion as does Lexus, which is part of the reason why I'm willing to pay the premium for these vehicles. So like I said, if they started a separate brand, it would show me some dedication and passion instead of paper chasing.

Anyway, like I said, it's the principle of the matter, not the badging.

Solo_D33A

well, in that case, the VW Phaeton is the perfect example. It's a luxury car from a non luxury brand, it failed, why? Because it's not much cheaper than its competitors, it's got no different badge than it's cheap cousins like the Jetta and Passat. But is it one of the best luxury car out there? Definitely.

At least Hyundai addressed these problems with their pricing of the new vehicles and a new LINE UP instead of brand to avoid the chance that it might bring down a brand new company that they have invested billions on if the car failed. It's good marketing the way I see it.

Besides, people still say Acura is expensive Honda, same goes for Lexus/Toyota, Infiniti/Nissan, Audi/VW even Maybach/MB.

gshb

there is value in having a brand that is known to be cheap. toyota, ford, honda, whoever arent trying to pretend that their cars are more affordable luxury cars. people who want a cheap car will goto these brands and expect nothing more. people who want something better, whatever it may be (comfort, performace, better network of dealers, etc), will pay the extra premium to get it in a luxury car.

hyundai producing the genesis isnt saying "look we have a more affordable luxury car" but rather "look we have an expensive cheap car." their market image is value. are they going to lux up the elantra, santa fe, accent? i doubt it. thus why the phaeton couldnt succeed and even less so because it wasnt even an affordable luxury car. and actually the phaeton is the perfect example. it cost almost 80k because there was passion in making it. how do you compare a 30-40k hyundai to a 80k volkswagen? i dont think volkswagen was taking 100% profit from the car. and so the same goes with most other luxury cars hyundai says they compete with. they cost more because they are worth more.

joe80

creating a luxury brand would've been a disastrous in today's bad economy. it's a smart move that they didn't pull the trigger. but i think it will eventually happen.

again, hyundai is trying to change their image, and they are doing great at it. many people i know hyundai already surpassed domestic in terms of build quality, reliability and so on. sooner or later hyundai will be right up there with honyotas. probably in year 2020?

ConceptVBS

This talk of "passion" in building cars is pure marketing lingo. Unless you are actually part of the development team, as a consumer you wont know what goes on behind the doors of these companies. You say certain companies have a passion of building cars, like it is some kind of art. It's the job of the marketers to make people want the car by injecting the catch phrases like "passion", "state of the art", "technology", "perfection" in your subconscious. It's an elaborate scheme of bringing out an emotional connection to a brand. This is what you typically see in "automotive fans".

At the end of the day, it is a business, a car business. Shareholders, profits, quarters, dividends all make the bottom line. They would not be building cars, if they did'nt make money. Simple as that.

insider

Damn. Hyundai is copying Mercedes just like Lexus copies Mercedes and BMW. Crazy world.

YEH

Yeah, reliability, alone, is reason to purchase a car - bleh.

In that case, I guess all the Lexus models, er, Toyotas sold in Japan (until a few years ago there was no Lexus brand in Japan) shows that Toyota had "no passion" - LOL!

Does the same "half-assed" criticism apply to Toyota since the LS, etc. were sold as Toyotas in Japan until a few years ago?

Please - the whole luxo badge thing has everything to do w/ the US being badge wh**es.

In Europe, Mercedes sells the econobox A and B Class models, stripped down models (pleather seats, weak engines, etc. - hardly luxurious) and Mercedes cabs abound by the tens of thousands.

However, MB is careful not to offer the A and B Class models in the US (they do offer the B Class in Canada) or the stripped down versions of their other models since that would hurt their carefully cultivated "image" in the US.

Basically, everything you are talking about is just the power of marketing - the same reason why Rolex and Bose have so much cache - despite not being superior or actually inferior to their competitors (now, I certainly am not saying that Hyundai is on the level of MB).

Right - the Phaeton failed b/c it was priced similarly to its competitors (from $70k all the way up to over $100k).

The Genesis, otoh, brings value to the equation.


Uhh, the Genesis is "cheaper" in part due to currency valuations and in part due to the US version being "stripped down" from the KDM version (not having adaptable cruise control, adjustable air suspension, etc.).

In SKorea, the Genesis goes for $50-60K US (keep in mind that the Genesis is not the flagship for Hyundai and thus, any such comparison to the A8 is simply ludicrous).

Hyundai is coming out w/ a new version of its flagship, the Equus, which is slated to be around the $90K range - so your "argument" is a bunch of "hooey".

Yep - the LS 430 was much more of a copy of the S Class than the Genesis (people ignorantly do the whole copying Mercedes thing simply due to Hyundai's grille - the side and rear of the Gen doesn't look anything like a Mercedes).

And as for the grille - the waterfall/klingon effect is different/new and arguably, the grille for the LS is just as much of a copy (just add a verticle slat to the grille of the LS, or remove the vertical slat from the S Class).

Pretty much every "lux" auto grille is a rectangular shape w/ vertical or horizontal slats (sometimes mesh is offered for the "sporty" version).

Case in point the grille for the GS - not much diff from Buick, Jaguar or past Infiniti grilles w/ the whole vertical slat-thing.

TJW98LS

iTrader: (1)

Let's not get carried away...

How does THIS...





Look like either of THESE? (1989 BMW 5 Series)







(1988 300E)







And I know you're not talking about the ES series...

1989 ES250



1993 ES300



The 89 just looked like a toyota and the 1993 ES300 looked like something that we had never seen before (as of '93)

I just don't see how they copied someone as much as everyone said they have.

KA8

iTrader: (1)

I think it's a smart move for them for not making a new luxury brand. I like their relatively simple design and relatively low prices. I wouldn't want to rely on computers and sensors to check tranny fluid levels.

Epik151

I hope they never make a luxury brand. So we don't have brand-*****s who would never buy "Hyundais" buying "re-badged Hyundais" and feeling good about themselves. Go pay for a BMW.

IS350jet

Very well said