IS-SV

Sadly it's the truth.

You have a valid point about demographics, but none of it supports the geezer pleaser strategy.

And your valid point about the age bracket of 50+ is exactly what I'm talking about. I know that huge age bracket very well, since I'm right in the middle of it. And none of my peers or family members buy Buicks.

Read the article above and you will see the average age of the Buick buyer is 68 years old, and wonderful that they are repeat buyers. Again, good luck with that strategy, no wonder GM is going bankrupt.

btw-the average age of the Toyota buyer is 48 years old. As you pointed out, they are in the sweet spot to target the biggest group of buyers (50-ish) and if they keep up the good work, they will keep selliing them cars into their golden years.

I8ABMR

You guys already know what I think of GM, and my opinion of them cant get any worse

CDNROCKIES

I am not going to dispute your anectodal point about your peer group and their perception of Buick, as it is certainly valid, but I would suggest that at least Buick is making some strong attempts at enticing some slightly younger buyers.

The Enclave and the Lacrosse, to name two, are excellent offerings that appeal to many more than just the geriatrics. If they are able to maintain their hold on the senior demographic and even expand a bit into a slightly younger demo, they will be poised for success.

Here is the population pyramid that I was referencing earlier:

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/id...t=Submit+Query

IS-SV

Thumbs-up on the attempts, I was just referencing the sad facts. I agree with your assessment on demographics/aging population. Buick has a long way to go from 68 years old average today, best of luck.
Sure looks like Toyota is well-positioned based on the age charts.

Ryeno

iTrader: (3)

Its about time. Pontiac and Saturn are in the exact same class. Why keep both?

IMO GM needs to be the following. Chevy for everything normal. Pontiac for the cheep cars. But i have a hard time justifying both caddy and buick. They are both in the luxury catagory.

Now i know this blasphemy but i think they need to ditch caddys. Caddy does have a mainstream name in luxury but honestly caddy is no where near benz in status. And that really says it all. Buick has a chance to become great but i think gm has killed caddy with all their new stylings. They just look soo funky and they arent great sellers either.

-J-P-L-

This doesn't make any sense. Kill Cadillac right in the middle of a huge comeback?

Buick is not in the luxury class that Cadillac is in. It's a bridge from Chevy to Caddy.

Not successful? The CTS is one of the best selling cars in it's class!

I can't believe you would even suggest this.

Lil4X

As the US came out of the depression of the '30's, GM developed their line of cars with a specific marketing logic in mind. The idea was to offer an entry-level car, then as a person grew older and more successful he could move up in the GM family from Chevrolet to Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and finally to Cadillac. The idea was to maintain lifetime customer loyalty to the GM brand - and it worked well for many years.

There were distinct manufacturing and economic benefits to offering multiple car lines, all marketed differently to a variety of demographics. First, all could share many components. Other than the body shell and a few unique offerings, common parts shared among lines offered simplified manufacturing and considerable savings. A door hinge for a '70's era Monte Carlo was shared by the Oldsmobile Toronado and the Cadillac Eldorado. Nevermind that the Chevy dealer sold the part for less than half the price of a Cadillac dealer, hundreds, even thousands of shared parts kept manufacturing costs down and parts inventories low.

Each division marketed ONE car. While it could be had as a two-door coupe, a four-door sedan, and often a wagon or a convertible, it was the same car, built on the same assembly line, from the same parts bin. A door handle for a Chevrolet fit ANY Chevrolet of that model year. Models were given a little cosmetic face-lift every year, but real changes usually required a three or four year production cycle when stamping dies were worn out anyway and the plants had to re-tool.

On the large scale, you might notice that GM synced their model changes. This was made necessary to achieve the economies of scale across the line. Working from a common parts bin, you could combine parts in a variety of ways, you could offer what was essentially one vehicle to a variety of markets.

The Chevrolet division manufactured a low-cost family car, while over at Pontiac lurked a slightly upscale alternative with a bit of cache' that it was a step up from the workingman's Chevy. In later years, Pontiac became the "performance division" of GM, with more sporting offerings with slightly harder suspension bushings, a bit stiffer springs, and slightly more aggressive engine tuning. Olds and Buick, seeing the success of Pontiac during the "muscle car" era of the late '60's and early '70's dug into their (largely shared) parts bins and came up with very credible alternatives to the high-performance Pontiacs. It was a matter of packaging.

Oldsmobile was generally considered the "manager's car" aimed at that successful executive who was moving up on the job. Pricing was interleaved so tightly with Chevy and Pontiac that with a little judicious checking of the options list you could arrive at an Oldsmobile that was actually more affordable than a high-end Chevy, but didn't sacrifice much in the way of glamor.

Buick was considered the "doctor's car", not quite an ostentatious Cadillac, but still something your could show up in at a customer's home or office and not look like a plutocrat. Again, by manipulating the options list you could have a car that might range in price from the Chevy to the Caddy, but with that always fashionable Buick image. Dress it up, dress it down, you could give the appearance of cost-consciousness or elegance at the stroke of a pen.

Cadillac sat at the pinnacle of the GM product pyramid. It made a statement, not just that you'd arrived, but from that lofty perch, you looked down on ordinary mortals. It said, "I've arrived and I no longer have to care what you think about me - I'm successful and I'm going to enjoy it." Cadillac became the American symbol of quality almost from its introduction. In the post-war years, it looked down on the rest of the automotive world - the "Cadillac" of anything entered the lexicon as simply the pinnacle of achievement. These post war years before Europe and Japan could gather themselves from the ashes and mass-produce automobiles that were anything but tin boxes with an engine better suited to a lawnmower were the glory days for Cadillac and most of the US automakers.

Today, with competition from overseas and the proliferation of models within a brand, it is no longer practical for GM to support three or four automotive platforms with extensive trim levels and options across five brands. First Oldsmobile succumbed, now the manufacturing test mule, Saturn. In recent years Saturn, the car company that pioneered new manufacturing techniques, became GM's import shop, selling largely re-badged Euro models as "American" cars. It has outlived it's purpose, and like Oldsmobile, it's time for it to go.

Buick is extremely successful, particularly in China, where it has found a huge market - marking the first time an American car has found success overseas. Pontiac, having toyed with that performance image for so long, is nearing the brink of oblivion. It's not like they haven't tried, but bold offerings like the Aztek, the GTO, and the Solstice. were largely met with yawns from the showroom. Whether the victims of spectacularly ugly styling, poor promotion, or dealer support, they were probably the right vehicle at the wrong time.

GM has the technology, the engineering, and the sales network to make some major changes in the traditional American automobile. Whether they can bring them to market while carrying the huge burden of their payroll and deferred benefits remains to be seen. The next casualty of the economy may well be the UAW.

Ryeno

iTrader: (3)

Lil4X did you write that all?
What comeback? The only caddy you even see on the road is the escalades and even that is rare compared to the number or rxs or x5s out there.

CTS a big seller? is that a joke? I remember when i used to live in detroit everyone wanted a caddy but how many actually had them? (like none, everyone was in a cheep pontiac) How many CTS's did i see? All the CTSs i saw in a month would be less then the number of 5 series bmws i see in a day here.

I mean look at the image of caddy. Like who buys them? People who love american and wont drive imports. I've never seen a person be like wow this caddy is soo much better then an s-class benz. The truth is the saying Cadillac of xxx doesnt exist anymore. And the lack of a caddy dealership in newport really says it all.

To put it simply Cadillac image is basically trashed. Now what is buicks image? That oldman, grandpa car. Well guess what has the exact same image? A mercades benz e or s class and a lexus ls. If you want gm to compete with the big names in luxury, they need a brand that they can actually sell to wealthy business people. And Cadillac isnt that brand, atleast not anymore.

mmarshall

Cadillacs are quite popular in my area (Washington, D.C.-Baltimore), and not just Escalades. You also see a good number of DTS, STS, and CTS, even with not-so-old people. But, of course, were are not an average new-car market area, either, and maybe not typical of the country as a whole...the Washington, DC area is extremely affulent, and is the country's second-largest new-car market outside of CA. And, while I would agree that Buick is primarily a senior-citizen car, it is not as grandpa and grandma-oriented as you think. Non-AARP members do buy and drive them. I have two neighbors in their 30's that have new Buicks.

Ryeno

iTrader: (3)

Have you ever been to the wealthy affluent parts of southern california? Its not really that BIG of a culture shock but it is eye opening. If i take a 5 mile drive on PCH on sunday. I will see modertly heavy traffic on a 3-4 lane road. But OVER HALF of the cars on the road will be BMWS and Mercades Benz with a good number of lexus's. I'll see atleast 10 porsches and and odds are i will see atleast one, bently, rolls royce or ferrari.

When i say Caddiliac isnt a big seller. I'm not comparing it to your everyday america roads filled with pontiacs, dodges, jeeps, toyota and honda. But I am comparing them with the big dogs.

LexBob2

In 2008 GM sold 161,159 Caddys (58,774 CTS vs. 39,710 Escalades).

Buick sold 137,197 cars (54,930 Lucernes).

Not too shappy considering the condition of the market.

IS-SV

I am not a fan of most of the Cadillac old school barge cars and badge-engineered-trucks and the sinking sales speak for themselves (sales are sinking faster than overall industry trends). Cadillac sales would look even sadder if the low profit rental fleet sales were excluded.

But the CTS is a decent car and sold about 58000 units in 2008, not bad. It's one of the few premium GM passenger cars that's reasonably popular in California.

IS-SV

Agreed, too bad most were sold at little or no profit, especially the fleet sales to rental car companies. And look at the sales declines from 2007 to 2008, most are well above industry trends. Just wrapping $100 bills around each unit, good luck with that strategy when you're insolvent.

I8ABMR

Gm has been screwing its customers for decades. Why is it surprising that its trying to screw some of its dealers

mmarshall

No, I haven't been to SoCal in recent years, and I take it you have not been to the D.C. area either.

Neither of our two regions, though, with their huge affluence and huge number of new cars sold, is really representative of the country as a whole.

I'm not surprised though, that you tend to see so many Rolls, Bentleys, and Ferraris there......those brands tend to be concentrated in the Hollywood-Beverly Hills area, for obvious reasons. Here, you don't see as many exotics....but BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Acura, and Mercedes, are all extremely popular here. The warm, sunny weather in SoCal is also more conducive to keeping a nice car than in this area.