Dealer: GM is killing Saturn, after we helped save GM
01-27-09, 05:07 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
The screwing of GM dealerships as closures become more and more frequent has just begun. Contractual obligations vary by state and will be short-changed by GM which has very little money to fund them anyway. This is only the beginning.
01-27-09, 05:33 PM
#32
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No, I haven't been to SoCal in recent years, and I take it you have not been to the D.C. area either.
Neither of our two regions, though, with their huge affluence and huge number of new cars sold, is really representative of the country as a whole. Southern California is by far the biggest market for luxury vehicles.
I'm not surprised though, that you tend to see so many Rolls, Bentleys, and Ferraris there......those brands tend to be concentrated in the Hollywood-Beverly Hills area, for obvious reasons. Here, you don't see as many exotics....but BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Acura, and Mercedes, are all extremely popular here. The warm, sunny weather in SoCal is also more conducive to keeping a nice car than in this area.
Neither of our two regions, though, with their huge affluence and huge number of new cars sold, is really representative of the country as a whole. Southern California is by far the biggest market for luxury vehicles.
I'm not surprised though, that you tend to see so many Rolls, Bentleys, and Ferraris there......those brands tend to be concentrated in the Hollywood-Beverly Hills area, for obvious reasons. Here, you don't see as many exotics....but BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Acura, and Mercedes, are all extremely popular here. The warm, sunny weather in SoCal is also more conducive to keeping a nice car than in this area.
BMW and Benz cream Cadillac in sales. Even lexus which is less popular then b/b still sell more then cadilliac and so does audi which isnt nearly as popular as lexus. And whats sad is i see more acuras then cadillac.
Put simply, cadillac doesn't appeal to the luxury car market.
01-27-09, 06:34 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
I agree that it's a stretch to consider Caddy a true luxury brand these days. But in sheer numbers, they sell a lot of cars with a much more limited lineup than the big brands. For example in '08 Caddy = 161K sold and Audi = 82K. The full lineup of MB and BMW sold 225K and 249K.
01-27-09, 07:25 PM
#34
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
I remember the very day they released Saturn. I was watching the news with my parents (I still don't know why... I was never home). GM was so proud of Saturn and they were showing off the dent proof car and all the safety features, and blah blah...... I remember all the GM reps glowing about the car and it had awesome resale to begin with.
Saturn actually did have a glory day at one time. Nice resale for an american car, good image, etc....... and GM boasting about their new line like a proud poppa.
Such a change........
Saturn actually did have a glory day at one time. Nice resale for an american car, good image, etc....... and GM boasting about their new line like a proud poppa.
Such a change........
01-27-09, 07:33 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
I remember the very day they released Saturn. I was watching the news with my parents (I still don't know why... I was never home). GM was so proud of Saturn and they were showing off the dent proof car and all the safety features, and blah blah...... I remember all the GM reps glowing about the car and it had awesome resale to begin with.
Saturn actually did have a glory day at one time. Nice resale for an american car, good image, etc....... and GM boasting about their new line like a proud poppa.
Such a change........
Saturn actually did have a glory day at one time. Nice resale for an american car, good image, etc....... and GM boasting about their new line like a proud poppa.
Such a change........
01-27-09, 07:33 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
I agree that it's a stretch to consider Caddy a true luxury brand these days. But in sheer numbers, they sell a lot of cars with a much more limited lineup than the big brands. For example in '08 Caddy = 161K sold and Audi = 82K. The full lineup of MB and BMW sold 225K and 249K.
Luxury is of substance and material, not what brand is the coolest at whatever given time.
01-27-09, 08:05 PM
#37
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What comeback? The only caddy you even see on the road is the escalades and even that is rare compared to the number or rxs or x5s out there.
CTS a big seller? is that a joke? I remember when i used to live in detroit everyone wanted a caddy but how many actually had them? (like none, everyone was in a cheep pontiac) How many CTS's did i see? All the CTSs i saw in a month would be less then the number of 5 series bmws i see in a day here.
I mean look at the image of caddy. Like who buys them? People who love american and wont drive imports.I would say more about their image but apparently i am censored. I've never seen a person be like wow this caddy is soo much better then an s-class benz. The truth is the saying Cadillac of xxx doesnt exist anymore. And the lack of a caddy dealership in newport really says it all.
To put it simply Cadillac image is basically trashed. Now what is buicks image? That oldman, grandpa car. Well guess what has the exact same image? A mercades benz e or s class and a lexus ls. If you want gm to compete with the big names in luxury, they need a brand that they can actually sell to wealthy business people. And Cadillac isnt that brand, atleast not anymore.
CTS a big seller? is that a joke? I remember when i used to live in detroit everyone wanted a caddy but how many actually had them? (like none, everyone was in a cheep pontiac) How many CTS's did i see? All the CTSs i saw in a month would be less then the number of 5 series bmws i see in a day here.
I mean look at the image of caddy. Like who buys them? People who love american and wont drive imports.I would say more about their image but apparently i am censored. I've never seen a person be like wow this caddy is soo much better then an s-class benz. The truth is the saying Cadillac of xxx doesnt exist anymore. And the lack of a caddy dealership in newport really says it all.
To put it simply Cadillac image is basically trashed. Now what is buicks image? That oldman, grandpa car. Well guess what has the exact same image? A mercades benz e or s class and a lexus ls. If you want gm to compete with the big names in luxury, they need a brand that they can actually sell to wealthy business people. And Cadillac isnt that brand, atleast not anymore.
2008 totals...
1. Lexus - 260,087
2. BMW - 249,113
3. Mercedes-Benz - 225,128
4. Cadillac - 161,159
5. Acura - 144,504
6. Infiniti - 112,989
7. Lincoln - 107,295
8. Audi - 87,760
9. Volvo - 73,102
10. Saab - 21,368
So yeah, Cadillac doesn't sell that much.
Oh, and btw, the CTS sells twice as much as the Escalade does.
And the CTS sells a lot more than the 5-series that you see so much of.
Entry-Level sales comparison...(December '08)
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
Doesn't look too bad to me (especially considering the 3, C, A4/5 come in a million variations).
Last edited by -J-P-L-; 01-27-09 at 08:09 PM.
01-27-09, 08:27 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Here we go....I guess I have to post sales numbers again...
2008 totals...
1. Lexus - 260,087
2. BMW - 249,113
3. Mercedes-Benz - 225,128
4. Cadillac - 161,159
5. Acura - 144,504
6. Infiniti - 112,989
7. Lincoln - 107,295
8. Audi - 87,760
9. Volvo - 73,102
10. Saab - 21,368
So yeah, Cadillac doesn't sell that much.
Oh, and btw, the CTS sells twice as much as the Escalade does.
And the CTS sells a lot more than the 5-series that you see so much of.
Entry-Level sales comparison...(December '08)
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
Doesn't look too bad to me (especially considering the 3, C, A4/5 come in a million variations).
2008 totals...
1. Lexus - 260,087
2. BMW - 249,113
3. Mercedes-Benz - 225,128
4. Cadillac - 161,159
5. Acura - 144,504
6. Infiniti - 112,989
7. Lincoln - 107,295
8. Audi - 87,760
9. Volvo - 73,102
10. Saab - 21,368
So yeah, Cadillac doesn't sell that much.
Oh, and btw, the CTS sells twice as much as the Escalade does.
And the CTS sells a lot more than the 5-series that you see so much of.
Entry-Level sales comparison...(December '08)
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
Doesn't look too bad to me (especially considering the 3, C, A4/5 come in a million variations).
I was just getting ready to hunt up the official figures myself to prove that Cadillac sales are better than that of many other luxury-car nameplates. Now I won't have to. 
01-27-09, 09:37 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
01-27-09, 09:41 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
I agree that it's a stretch to consider Caddy a true luxury brand these days. But in sheer numbers, they sell a lot of cars with a much more limited lineup than the big brands. For example in '08 Caddy = 161K sold and Audi = 82K. The full lineup of MB and BMW sold 225K and 249K.
01-27-09, 09:44 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Exactly and other than the CTS, most of the western world doesn't consider Cadillac to be much of luxury brand either. Most Cadillacs are oversized, and dated as well as not being cool, not a good combo.
01-27-09, 09:50 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Here we go....I guess I have to post sales numbers again...
2008 totals...
1. Lexus - 260,087
2. BMW - 249,113
3. Mercedes-Benz - 225,128
4. Cadillac - 161,159
5. Acura - 144,504
6. Infiniti - 112,989
7. Lincoln - 107,295
8. Audi - 87,760
9. Volvo - 73,102
10. Saab - 21,368
So yeah, Cadillac doesn't sell that much.
Oh, and btw, the CTS sells twice as much as the Escalade does.
And the CTS sells a lot more than the 5-series that you see so much of.
Entry-Level sales comparison...(December '08)
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
Doesn't look too bad to me (especially considering the 3, C, A4/5 come in a million variations).
2008 totals...
1. Lexus - 260,087
2. BMW - 249,113
3. Mercedes-Benz - 225,128
4. Cadillac - 161,159
5. Acura - 144,504
6. Infiniti - 112,989
7. Lincoln - 107,295
8. Audi - 87,760
9. Volvo - 73,102
10. Saab - 21,368
So yeah, Cadillac doesn't sell that much.
Oh, and btw, the CTS sells twice as much as the Escalade does.
And the CTS sells a lot more than the 5-series that you see so much of.
Entry-Level sales comparison...(December '08)
1. 3 - 8,490
2. C - 6,090
3. ES - 5,236
4. G - 4,982
5. A4/5 - 4,511
6. CTS - 4,396
7. TL - 3,607
8. IS - 3,539
9. MKZ - 2,089
10. 9-3 - 684
11. S60 - 266
Doesn't look too bad to me (especially considering the 3, C, A4/5 come in a million variations).
2008 CTS-58,774
2007-57,029
2008 5 Series- 45,915
2007- 54,142
As for what you see, more affluent areas will have more 5 series than the CTS. So he CAN see more 5's based on where he is.
01-27-09, 09:51 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Caddy is a luxury brand, can't argue with that. They have the basics, V-8s, RWD, real wood and continue to get better.
01-27-09, 09:58 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Certainly in the US, but only with the CTS worldwide, at best.