German Engineers Fail the Paternity Test
01-28-09, 11:34 PM
#17
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They were thinking that spending billions of dollars on an entirely new platform for the american market, then importing it from Europe didn't make much sense financially or practically. It's quite clear why they did it - cost and time to market. How this eludes anybody here makes me wonder.
I understand some of you want to paint the van as a complete piece of crap, but it's the largest volume player in the segment, still. It's one of the only saving graces for Chrysler. And stop with the "I've never seen one so therefore it was a bad idea". Puhhhhleeeze!
oh, and by the way, the terrible American Routan has been labled by many in the press as having "best in class dynamics", "best in class interior". Typical Volkswagen. They spent about $250 million re-engineering this platform, by the way. I am not the largest fan, and would take Honda/Toyota over it, but it's not as terrible as it's being made out to be.
I understand some of you want to paint the van as a complete piece of crap, but it's the largest volume player in the segment, still. It's one of the only saving graces for Chrysler. And stop with the "I've never seen one so therefore it was a bad idea". Puhhhhleeeze!
oh, and by the way, the terrible American Routan has been labled by many in the press as having "best in class dynamics", "best in class interior". Typical Volkswagen. They spent about $250 million re-engineering this platform, by the way. I am not the largest fan, and would take Honda/Toyota over it, but it's not as terrible as it's being made out to be.
Last edited by FKL; 01-28-09 at 11:37 PM.
01-29-09, 12:16 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
They were thinking that spending billions of dollars on an entirely new platform for the american market, then importing it from Europe didn't make much sense financially or practically. It's quite clear why they did it - cost and time to market. How this eludes anybody here makes me wonder.
I understand some of you want to paint the van as a complete piece of crap, but it's the largest volume player in the segment, still. It's one of the only saving graces for Chrysler. And stop with the "I've never seen one so therefore it was a bad idea".
I understand some of you want to paint the van as a complete piece of crap, but it's the largest volume player in the segment, still. It's one of the only saving graces for Chrysler. And stop with the "I've never seen one so therefore it was a bad idea".
):Chrysler Town & Country 8152
Dodge Caravan 6972
Honda Odyssey 6950
Toyota Sienna 6901
Kia Sedona 1971
VW Routan 899
Nissan Quest 491
Regardless of the low development spend and the aggressive marketing campaign, they still seem to be an afterthought and not really even worth being in this category.
01-29-09, 12:38 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
What difference does it make if they're "best in" whatever if they can't sell them? Why would they invest $250B in a car they can't sell? While the vehicle itself may have some merits, in the North American market it is a huge failure.
You stated that even you would choose a Toyota or a Honda over this? If you're not going to buy a VW, who is?
01-29-09, 12:38 AM
#21
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First Drive
*For the naysayers who think there couldn't possibly be any true Volkswagen DNA in the new Routan, well, you're mistaken. Granted, it's not the Microbus Concept we'd been dreaming of since 2001, but it's a step in the right direction. Think of the Routan as a new beginning, and if everything goes well it could demonstrate to the powers that be a Volkswagen van can be viable again. And who knows where else that could lead. Judging by the initial buzz, it might seem easy to dismiss the Routan as simply an American designed and engineered minivan with a VW logo. Not quite. Volkswagen designers and engineers analyzed, deconstructed and tested everything, and then put it all back together again. Ultimately, they transformed this seven-passenger minivan into something uniquely Volkswagen.
The underpinnings were sourced from Chrysler, the inventor of the modern day minivan and the industry leader in that segment. The major components from Chrysler include the standard six-speed automatic transmission mated to a standard 3.8-liter V6 with 197 hp and 230 lb-ft of torque, or an available 4.0-liter V6 with 253 hp and 262 lb-ft. Though parts were borrowed from Chrysler, Volkswagen still had to make sure the design and vehicle dynamics were unmistakably its own and worthy of the V-Dub logo. To accomplish this, they had to break the vehicle down to its most basic components. Designers reshaped the sheet metal, added the signature grille and various other exterior components. Since the interior is where the customers spend most of their time, it was also critical to enhance the Routan's interior with high quality materials with superior German fit and finish. VW even went as far as tuning the seat cushions to the match the van's sportier ride and handling characteristics.
The Routan benefits from Volkswagen's ongoing commitment to safety with standard features such as front and side curtain airbags and Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) with hydraulic brake assist. Additional safety benefits come from the German-tuned suspension and steering, both of which have been optimized for handling and improved stability. To give the vehicle a true European feel, VW engineers swapped the suspension bushings, shocks, springs, and steering gear. On the road, it gives a smooth yet firm ride, exuding confidence during cornering in a way that only a German vehicle could.
Like most premium minivans, the Routan features three rows of seating, dual power sliding doors, in-floor storage, a power folding third-row seat. Cupholders outnumber the amount of people that could legally fit in the car; I lost count after thirteen. To keep the kids entertained there's also an optional multimedia entertainment system available.
Why did VW decide to use Chrysler engines and drivetrain components? If you guessed managing cost, you're correct. Using Chrysler components allowed Volkswagen to keep the Routan's price point reasonable. Using American components may not be as diabolical as it sounds; we feel if there was a need to address any mechanical issues, Volkswagen would have addressed them. Extensive testing concluded the drivetrain components offered good performance and reliability. Having had the pleasure of driving the Routan in its natural habitat-a combination of freeway and around-town driving, as well as on the occasional winding back road-allowed me to get an good overall impression. The engine responded well, acceleration was decent, transmission operation was smooth, and the brakes worked as well as could be expected on a 4,800-pound passenger vehicle.
If circumstances forced me to drive a minivan, the only thing that would bother me about the Routan in the 10mm plug in the dash on the right side of the dash-mounted shifter. But with a sportier look and phenomenal handling, this is definitely not your parents' minivan. The Routan stays true to the brand, outdoes the expected, and stands out from the minivan crowd.
*For the naysayers who think there couldn't possibly be any true Volkswagen DNA in the new Routan, well, you're mistaken. Granted, it's not the Microbus Concept we'd been dreaming of since 2001, but it's a step in the right direction. Think of the Routan as a new beginning, and if everything goes well it could demonstrate to the powers that be a Volkswagen van can be viable again. And who knows where else that could lead. Judging by the initial buzz, it might seem easy to dismiss the Routan as simply an American designed and engineered minivan with a VW logo. Not quite. Volkswagen designers and engineers analyzed, deconstructed and tested everything, and then put it all back together again. Ultimately, they transformed this seven-passenger minivan into something uniquely Volkswagen.
The underpinnings were sourced from Chrysler, the inventor of the modern day minivan and the industry leader in that segment. The major components from Chrysler include the standard six-speed automatic transmission mated to a standard 3.8-liter V6 with 197 hp and 230 lb-ft of torque, or an available 4.0-liter V6 with 253 hp and 262 lb-ft. Though parts were borrowed from Chrysler, Volkswagen still had to make sure the design and vehicle dynamics were unmistakably its own and worthy of the V-Dub logo. To accomplish this, they had to break the vehicle down to its most basic components. Designers reshaped the sheet metal, added the signature grille and various other exterior components. Since the interior is where the customers spend most of their time, it was also critical to enhance the Routan's interior with high quality materials with superior German fit and finish. VW even went as far as tuning the seat cushions to the match the van's sportier ride and handling characteristics.
The Routan benefits from Volkswagen's ongoing commitment to safety with standard features such as front and side curtain airbags and Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP) with hydraulic brake assist. Additional safety benefits come from the German-tuned suspension and steering, both of which have been optimized for handling and improved stability. To give the vehicle a true European feel, VW engineers swapped the suspension bushings, shocks, springs, and steering gear. On the road, it gives a smooth yet firm ride, exuding confidence during cornering in a way that only a German vehicle could.
Like most premium minivans, the Routan features three rows of seating, dual power sliding doors, in-floor storage, a power folding third-row seat. Cupholders outnumber the amount of people that could legally fit in the car; I lost count after thirteen. To keep the kids entertained there's also an optional multimedia entertainment system available.
Why did VW decide to use Chrysler engines and drivetrain components? If you guessed managing cost, you're correct. Using Chrysler components allowed Volkswagen to keep the Routan's price point reasonable. Using American components may not be as diabolical as it sounds; we feel if there was a need to address any mechanical issues, Volkswagen would have addressed them. Extensive testing concluded the drivetrain components offered good performance and reliability. Having had the pleasure of driving the Routan in its natural habitat-a combination of freeway and around-town driving, as well as on the occasional winding back road-allowed me to get an good overall impression. The engine responded well, acceleration was decent, transmission operation was smooth, and the brakes worked as well as could be expected on a 4,800-pound passenger vehicle.
If circumstances forced me to drive a minivan, the only thing that would bother me about the Routan in the 10mm plug in the dash on the right side of the dash-mounted shifter. But with a sportier look and phenomenal handling, this is definitely not your parents' minivan. The Routan stays true to the brand, outdoes the expected, and stands out from the minivan crowd.
01-29-09, 12:40 AM
#22
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I don't see what you're trying to say?
What difference does it make if they're "best in" whatever if they can't sell them? Why would they invest $250B in a car they can't sell? While the vehicle itself may have some merits, in the North American market it is a huge failure.
You stated that even you would choose a Toyota or a Honda over this? If you're not going to buy a VW, who is?
What difference does it make if they're "best in" whatever if they can't sell them? Why would they invest $250B in a car they can't sell? While the vehicle itself may have some merits, in the North American market it is a huge failure.
You stated that even you would choose a Toyota or a Honda over this? If you're not going to buy a VW, who is?
Yeah, releasing a car in the middle of a recession, launching a big brand push when auto sales are down nearly 35% YOY will always lead to great results. My god, give it more than three months. We'll see. Nobody was expecting it to launch to the levels of the established players.
01-29-09, 06:15 AM
#23
Lexus Champion
Doesn't really matter if they can't sell them. There's a reason hardly anyone has seen them. December sales for minivans (forgive me if I missed any....I have no idea what's even in this class):
Chrysler Town & Country 8152
Dodge Caravan 6972
Honda Odyssey 6950
Toyota Sienna 6901
Kia Sedona 1971
VW Routan 899
Nissan Quest 491
Regardless of the low development spend and the aggressive marketing campaign, they still seem to be an afterthought and not really even worth being in this category.
):Chrysler Town & Country 8152
Dodge Caravan 6972
Honda Odyssey 6950
Toyota Sienna 6901
Kia Sedona 1971
VW Routan 899
Nissan Quest 491
Regardless of the low development spend and the aggressive marketing campaign, they still seem to be an afterthought and not really even worth being in this category.
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