PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

LET'S STOP THE NAMECALLING.

Thank you very much.

I believe that, for now, it's best to get rid of V12s and use naturally aspirated and turbocharged V8s.

However, to completely eliminate V8 options is absurd!!!

V8s are ultimately necessary because of the need to move heavier, more complex, and fully-loaded luxo-cruisers such as the LS, S-Class, and 7-Series. It's part of the price, part of the necessity, and part of the prestige.

IS-SV

I dozed off and missed the name calling, I guess.

LexFather

Sometimes it is. Sometimes we need port o potties so people don't put feces all over the place. Feces needs to be contained so it doesn't spread to other people, spreading germs and filth. Some people work very hard to keep an environment clean with tons of toilet tissue (2 ply) and good reading info. Others would rather crap everywhere BUT inside the toilet and wipe themselves with the good information so they can spread their feces.

I'm just saying.


You simply do not understand the economies of the luxury business. Luxury car makers do not ditch an engine that has been produced for decades. Good companies don't make "knee jerk" reactions.

THE SAME THING WAS SAID IN THE 1970S WITH THE FUEL CRISIS!!!!! Ditch V-8s, Ditch V-12s, Ditch anything bigger than a 2 liter 4. Look TODAY, we have more and bigger engines than ever

The LS continues to evolve if you haven't noticed for 2 decades while Acura can't sell a damn V-6 midsize car and Infiniti can't sell a flagship. Neither can VW and sadly Jaguar and sadly the A8 here.

The LS has sold better than ANY other flagship in America and is respected all over the world. Top Gear named it big saloon of the year. It won world car of the year. Your hated for it is baseless as there is a forum full of people who bought it.

Big engines are here to stay. INNOVATION will drive them to success. Innovation like turbos and forced induction and hybrids and ways to make them more efficient.

For Zeus's sake, HYUNDAI and KIA now have BRAND NEW V-8s and forging with plans for a 5.0 V-8.

The SKY IS NOT FALLING.

UDel

I think it is a very smart move for Lexus to offer a v6 option on make it standard with the LS. The current Lexus 3.5l has 306hp which is plenty of hp for the LS and still gets decent gas mileage. It is actually quicker then the 300hp 4.3l v8 in the GS430 by quite a bit from most tests so it is not like it is going to be some weezy underpowered powerplant and will still satisfy 80%-90% of LS buyers. With the economy and gas prices fluctuating so much it will give Lexus the opportunity to offer a lower priced higher mpg version of the LS to make it more attractive to buyers which will also help them meet strict CAFE standards coming in a few years, this will only lead to higher sales and higher profits even in troubled times. A v8 still could/should be an option for owners who want more low down torque and a smoother engine but 6 cylinder options on current v8 only cars are going to be inevitable in the future with gas prices, economy, CAFE and it does not lower the prestige of the car or brand to offer them, Merc, BMW, and Audi all have 6 cylinder versions of their flagships in other markets that sell very well and their image is not hurt from it. I think many LS, S class, 7 series, A8 buyers would opt for a good 6 cylinder option if it did not feel underpowered and they could get the car at a lower price and get much better fuel economy.

Having a v8 is nice in my GS430 but I would rather have a FI turbo 6 cylinder option that gets much better gas mileage and is more tunable. Unfortunately the standard inline 6 for the 2nd Gen GS felt kind of underpowered to me and barely gave better fuel economy so the v8 made sense to me.

I think it is a great idea for Lexus to offer a lower priced v6 for the LS that gets much better fuel economy

DustinV

Times are changing and automobile producers have to adapt to these times.

The days of a gas-guzzling V8 in a luxury automobile are slowly but surely coming to an end (aka the market for such cars will be shrinking). I am willing to bet that pretty soon a V8 will be seen as "socially unacceptable" because it automatically implies poorer fuel efficiency etc. A powerful yet more efficient V6 will do the job just fine.

And the whole "prestige" issue really shouldn't be an issue at all. I find it sad that we in America seem to think that the only true luxury car is a vehicle with an inefficient V8 engine upfront - all the while ignoring some potent 4 cylinders or 6 cylinder engines out there that are just refined and far from slow.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Thing of it is that the UR V8 is anything but gas guzzling or inefficient. Take a look at the gas mileage in the ISF, GS 460, or LS 460 in comparison to any of their competitors. The GS and LS can break 30MPG highway and many average low to mid 20s in combined driving. That is pretty remarkable.

EDIT: Though I must agree whole heartedly with your overall post

LexFather

Exactly. The V-8 Lexus have the same fuel economy as V-6 Acuras and Infinitis. The V-8 Lexus is SMALLER than the German V-8s with comparable power and 20% more efficient in some cases, if not more.

BMW sells 6 cylinder 635s, 735s, etc. Benz sells SL 350s, S 350s, etc.

A LS 350 would be a great addition. I would also like to see a LS 450h as well and expand the hybrid range.

Shoot me again but Lexus problem as of late is NOT fuel efficient engines and trannies, its their WEIGHT GAINS (along with everyone else), which is offsetting the former. I know they have to add more and more tech and options but still, imagine a Lexus where the weight was like the older models with the newer engines and trannies!

Koma

iTrader: (3)

I think some of you don't realize that a luxo-sedan (heavy) buzzing around in a V6 straining to pull the weight is not exactly efficient. I'm not saying it's always the case but there is a reason why they make V8s, for their low end torque. You might say "well this V6 has X HP" but you guys don't realize that most if not all of our everyday driving relies on low end torque not max HP at the pinnacle of the RPM range. Yes 6 cylinder 7s and S-classes exist but I don't know if they feel very luxurious because they're straining to pull all the weight. Now a FI V6 or hybrid V6 could give it that extra torque needed for everyday driving.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Exactly. There is a point where a smaller engine is going to have to work harder to do the same amount of work which usually eats into gas mileage and performance.

Considering performance and efficiency I really see nothing wrong with the 4.6L V8...only reason I can see to add a V6 would be cost, and even then, would it really be worth it? I would venture to say no with all things considered.

IS-SV

IMHO, I don't think Lexus has any plans of producing luxury sedans with engines that are so small and so overtaxed that the fuel economy ends up being worse than current V8, it's just not a likely scenario at all. Not a very worthwhile scenario to discuss.

Lexus is known for providing the customer with a few nicely engineered engine choices.

RON430

Can't say I have magnified every post but is this LS350 going to be for here or somewhere else? There aren't too many reasons for an LS350, better mileage or the engine displacement falls under a gov tax are the two big ones. If it is for mileage, well then the LS350 has to work for its living, it has to get better mileage than the LS460. There is some value to the "engine too small" argument for good mileage but not here. How many years ago was it that the LS had 300hp, V6 or V8? The 350 has more than enough hp to pull the LS around but you are talking about a pretty healthy V6 here, and it takes gas to run. I haven't watched many of the European countries but it seems the ones that tax based on displacement require a lot of sub 3l engines so I am not sure what good this does. There might be some other reasons for CO but there I don't know what the regs are that would benefit.

Here in the US, an LS350 will find a market but it might not be very big unless they decontent it and have a pretty good drop in price. And that isn't really the way that Lexus has put models together. Biggest reason to do it might be why not? If there are sales to be made and the NREs are minimal, go for it. It's a shame that this was further up their list than a hybrid ES, but that's another issue.

Oh, and by the way if Benz was going to do this trick, it would be an S350. The S400 is their hybrid. Yep, it has a V6 but it has that cute little LiON pack in it up front.

darkdream

they should put in a TT V6

IS-SV

Agreed, Lexus would do it right, no undersized/inefficient engine.

Yes, MB S350 and SL350 has been available in Europe for some time.

FKL

While I am never one to defend the in-many-ways inferior LS range, it is a prudent move on Lexus's part to throw a V6 powertrain on the car. As stated, Mercedes already does this on many of their European and Asian sold S-Class models, so why it would cause such a circus is beyond me.

My guess is they are doing this to further reduce the entry point for the LS (strictly in the American market). I don't see much fuel improvment over a larger engine given the size and weight of this automobile.

RON430

Depends what you call doing it right. Once again, if the reason for doing this is to get the LS better mileage, well then the EPA numbers are going to make it or break it. And I wouldn't expect much improvement over the 460 in all honesty. That might be enough at $5/gal but at $2/gal, I sure doubt it.

Now if you love conspiracies, maybe Lexus is doing this as they have gazed in their crystal ball and don't exactly like what they see for five or ten years from now. They might be signalling that the V6 will be the volume model. Maybe not. But before anyone posts, I already know what the opinion of the vast majority of people here will be to that. Don't have to be a genius to remember that this is an enthusiast site after all.

But with the escalating CAFE standards here and who knows what going on with carbon emissions, cars will change. There will always be a consumer for power but there could well be a segmentation of the luxury market between luxury (as in size and creature comforts) with and without power. Europe has been doing that for years. Sub 3l limos have been running around there for some time.