2010 Lexus LS (With a 3.5 V6 ?)
02-02-09, 03:03 PM
#46
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Exactly. There is a point where a smaller engine is going to have to work harder to do the same amount of work which usually eats into gas mileage and performance.
Considering performance and efficiency I really see nothing wrong with the 4.6L V8...only reason I can see to add a V6 would be cost, and even then, would it really be worth it? I would venture to say no with all things considered.
Considering performance and efficiency I really see nothing wrong with the 4.6L V8...only reason I can see to add a V6 would be cost, and even then, would it really be worth it? I would venture to say no with all things considered.
The 3.5 will do fine in the LS and should get better MPG with an 8 speed transmission.
02-02-09, 03:31 PM
#48
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02-02-09, 03:36 PM
#51
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02-02-09, 03:39 PM
#52
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I think a V6 version of the LS would do fine and expand the LS line. Just because its a flagship doesnt mean it has to have big power from a big V8. People will still know that the LS in the Lexus range means flagship, its the biggest sedan Lexus makes, even in short wheelbase trim, its still bigger than the GS and ES in length and headroom, especially in the backseat.
I also think if Lexus did make the V6 version, it would be overlap between the GS 460 and GS 450h, making it a hard decision for purchasing, too many cars in the base price range between 55k-60k range, excluding the IS-F.
Mercedes brought over a S350 and it didnt make it any less luxurious. Only real difference I saw was smaller wheels and regular halogen headlamps.
Its not like Lexus would put less wood in the car or put some really cheap leather in it. I'm sure it would still be up to LS standards in terms of Luxury and be considered the big dog of the Lexus lineup.
I also think if Lexus did make the V6 version, it would be overlap between the GS 460 and GS 450h, making it a hard decision for purchasing, too many cars in the base price range between 55k-60k range, excluding the IS-F.
Mercedes brought over a S350 and it didnt make it any less luxurious. Only real difference I saw was smaller wheels and regular halogen headlamps.
Its not like Lexus would put less wood in the car or put some really cheap leather in it. I'm sure it would still be up to LS standards in terms of Luxury and be considered the big dog of the Lexus lineup.
02-02-09, 04:01 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
While I am never one to defend the in-many-ways inferior LS range, it is a prudent move on Lexus's part to throw a V6 powertrain on the car. As stated, Mercedes already does this on many of their European and Asian sold S-Class models, so why it would cause such a circus is beyond me.
My guess is they are doing this to further reduce the entry point for the LS (strictly in the American market). I don't see much fuel improvment over a larger engine given the size and weight of this automobile.
My guess is they are doing this to further reduce the entry point for the LS (strictly in the American market). I don't see much fuel improvment over a larger engine given the size and weight of this automobile.
Car Chat = Circus, at least when compared to many other forums. It's not just this topic. Sometimes I wonder if anybody here even owns a car. LOLI agree about the reasoning for V6, based more on the price point and to a lessor extent on the measurable and modest improvement in gas mileage.
02-02-09, 04:29 PM
#54
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Just look at how well a V6 S class or 7 series performs: effortlessly. Besides, people going for a V6 will clearly be more interested comfort features and enjoying the car rather than enjoying pure performance. It goes without saying that most LS460 or S550 owners most likely have never really hammered their vehicle. Remember, these cars are generally bought by older consumers that drive in an elegant and relaxed manor. Most of us here are what, in their mid to late 20s (I am assuming)?
@ MPLexus: I have not been following much automotive news lately, but wasn't Lexus criticized for presenting MPG claims that weren't attainable? I know the LS600h seems to be a good example and I've heard some complaints regarding this issue with the LS460 as well.
02-02-09, 04:38 PM
#55
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By the way I really think this is a good decision on Lexus' part. Ok, so will automatically attract more buyers because it will be cheaper than the LS460 and most likely come with the same standard features. That basically divides the buyers who want the "LS350" because of the perceived fuel economy benefits and the buyers who are going for the LS460 because of status, power and other perceptions. I am almost positive that there are a lot of potential customers out there that want an LS firstly because of the features and comfort, not really performance. Offering a V6 will mean that you can pretty much get these people into your showroom and hopefully leaving with an "LS350".
One thing I have been wondering about is how this V6 LS may sell in Europe. Truth be told, an S350/730i/A8 3.2 is pretty rare here. What you do see are the respective diesel versions, the S320 CDI/730d/A8 3.0 TDI. Lexus has nothing to compete in this class, the bestseller upper luxury class in Europe. The 2.2 diesel from the IS220d lacks the refinement of its European rivals and is way to underpowered to be moving a fullsize like the LS around. What Lexus really needs a specially designed V6 diesel for this very specific niche of the upper luxury class in Europe.
Thoughts?
One thing I have been wondering about is how this V6 LS may sell in Europe. Truth be told, an S350/730i/A8 3.2 is pretty rare here. What you do see are the respective diesel versions, the S320 CDI/730d/A8 3.0 TDI. Lexus has nothing to compete in this class, the bestseller upper luxury class in Europe. The 2.2 diesel from the IS220d lacks the refinement of its European rivals and is way to underpowered to be moving a fullsize like the LS around. What Lexus really needs a specially designed V6 diesel for this very specific niche of the upper luxury class in Europe.
Thoughts?
02-02-09, 04:40 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
This should lay to rest, once and for all, the oft-quoted notion that luxury-car flagships HAVE to have a V8. If Lexus can put a V6 in its LS flagship, then anybody can.
(yes, including Acura...though I'll concede that Acura, unlike Lexus, still doesn't have a V8 to upgrade to)
(yes, including Acura...though I'll concede that Acura, unlike Lexus, still doesn't have a V8 to upgrade to)
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-02-09 at 04:53 PM.
02-02-09, 04:46 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
You guys bring up some good points about a strong modern V6 being capable in a heavy luxury car.
A recent real example was the Mercedes ML350 that I used to own. It had a 3.5L 268 hp DOHC V6 with a 7 speed tranny. This chubby SUV weighed 4800 pounds+ and had mediocre aerodynamics when compared to a car. It was plenty quick with 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and top speed of over 135mph (governed), per C&D. Sure the V8 version was faster but the gas mileage difference and purchase cost difference was significant.
A recent real example was the Mercedes ML350 that I used to own. It had a 3.5L 268 hp DOHC V6 with a 7 speed tranny. This chubby SUV weighed 4800 pounds+ and had mediocre aerodynamics when compared to a car. It was plenty quick with 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and top speed of over 135mph (governed), per C&D. Sure the V8 version was faster but the gas mileage difference and purchase cost difference was significant.
02-02-09, 05:00 PM
#58
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I can understand that, for most owners of the LS (a good majority of comfy slow riders, not most of the members on CL), a V6 would suffice.
However, it does pose a problem regarding prestige and exclusivity. I don't want the LS(350) to have the same image problem the Acura RL or Infiniti M. If the LS wants to cut costs, it should do so by making the base model less tech-savvy, instead of offering a weaker engine. What you end up with is the GS460.
And there should NEVER ever be inter-brand competition by offering an LS350 similarly priced as (or lower than) the GS460.
However, it does pose a problem regarding prestige and exclusivity. I don't want the LS(350) to have the same image problem the Acura RL or Infiniti M. If the LS wants to cut costs, it should do so by making the base model less tech-savvy, instead of offering a weaker engine. What you end up with is the GS460.
And there should NEVER ever be inter-brand competition by offering an LS350 similarly priced as (or lower than) the GS460.
02-02-09, 05:56 PM
#59
Just as a few examples...
A lot of the GS 350 and IS 350 owners can do 27-28mpg on the highway when cruising. When I drove a 2006 GS 300 over the summer I averaged 33mpg on the highway at 70mph. Average combined mileage for GS350s that I have seen in customer cars is probably about 22-23MPG.
Many IS 250 owners average 27-28MPG combined, sometimes over 30MPG on the highway.
It's pretty common to see an LS460 do 28-31MPG on the highway at 75MPH. Most of the LS 460s that I have driven average around 24mpg combined.
RX400hs average 26-27mpg in combined driving.
ISF owners are getting 26-27mpg in highway driving and most are getting high teens/low 20s in nonaggressive combined driving.
I was really pretty shocked when I started seeing such high numbers on some of these cars regularly. The new direct injection V6s and V8s are wonderfully efficient engines...much more so than the window sticker would suggest.