January 2009 Automobile Sales
02-16-09, 03:21 PM
#152
Lexus Champion
OT, but FWIW, I preferred the Five Hundred name vs. Taurus. To me it sounded more contemporary. I hope the new model Taurus does better for Ford than the current one.
02-16-09, 05:56 PM
#153
Moderator
I agree with you. To me it is and always will be the Ford Five Hundred. That's what I think about it today. It's not a Taurus by all means...the Taurus died a long time ago...good riddance...
02-16-09, 06:02 PM
#155
Lexus Fanatic
02-16-09, 06:18 PM
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
You really make me want to start hating VWs.
To be honest I'm no big VW guy but I do think they make good products, just priced too high and their core message is lost. I still like the New Beetle the best 
What exactly did the competition copy from the Golf, Passat, Touareg?
02-16-09, 06:44 PM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
The Jetta sells at a decent volume in the US, which is more than you can say about the rest of the VW product line in the US. A Jetta IMHO is one of my preferred rental cars, a decent economy sedan.
02-20-09, 06:04 AM
#159
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Luxury Sales
Luxury's Rough Ride: High-End Brands to Trail OverAll Market
Friday, February 20, 2009
Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
Friday, February 20, 2009
Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
Daimler AG executives may have thought they had escaped the brutal economics of the mainstream auto market when they got rid of Chrysler in the summer of 2007.
But a little over a year later, Daimler and other luxury carmakers are struggling in a downturn that has buffeted the fanciest nameplates as severely as the rest of the industry.
Daimler reported this week that its Mercedes-Benz Cars division lost $460 million in the fourth quarter of 2008 and it forecast lower Mercedes sales for this year. Moody's Investors Service lowered its outlook for Daimler and said it may cut its credit rating for BMW, citing concerns about the companies' profitability.
In contrast with past recessions, this slump is hurting many wealthy people who usually ride out economic ups and downs.
"This recession is one that is not respectful of social class," said Johan de Nysschen, president of Audi of America. "It's one that's cutting very deeply at all layers of society."
Many premium car buyers work in two of the economy's most troubled sectors, banking and real estate. People with big savings have seen a steep erosion in their personal wealth -- and that hasn't bottomed out. Last month was the worst January on record for the New York Stock Exchange.
In the United States, traditionally the most lucrative auto market, Mercedes sales plunged 42.9 percent and Cadillac sales slumped 42.5 percent in January, compared with the overall market's 37.1 percent drop. Bentley sales were off 74.7 percent, while Porsche's fell 36.1 percent.
While the declines reflect the severity of the recession, auto executives and analysts say underlying trends are aggravating the downturn in luxury car sales -- and they worry those may persist well beyond the recession.
One is a newfound austerity that appears to be a backlash to the conspicuous consumption that characterized the booms of recent decades.
"As far back as 2007, a trend away from ostentation and bling was already being remarked on," said Donna Boland, a spokeswoman for Mercedes-Benz USA in Montvale, N.J. "The economics have accelerated dynamics that were already in place."
Analyst Rebecca Lindland at consulting firm IHS Global Insight said there were no hard figures. "It's more anecdotal, but it's something we're watching," she said. "We may see a kind of change in attitude where it may not just be about flaunting your wealth."
Some luxury brands may be able to withstand this shift in taste better than others, Lindland said. "I think Audi and Acura are two of the less vulnerable brands because they tend to be more understated, and a little more under the radar."
No desire to show off
In any kind of downturn, people are reluctant to show off, said Jack Nerad, market analyst at Kelley Blue Book.
But the trend is more pronounced in this recession, he said, because of another long-term shift: growing concern for the environment, the effect of car emissions on the earth's atmosphere, and the planet's dwindling resources.
A look at who buys the Toyota Prius hybrid, which starts at $22,000, shows how these two trends are dovetailing, he said.
"A lot of potential luxury car customers went into Prius," Nerad said, while Toyota's premium Lexus hybrids "have largely fallen flat."
Prius buyers earn more than $100,000, on average, and many of them could easily afford a flashier nameplate, he said.
Pam Danzinger, president of Unity Marketing, a consulting firm in Stevens, Pa., that studies buying patterns of wealthy people, says premium car purchases fell by almost half in the firm's fourth-quarter survey after holding steady for several quarters.
"We see more of the affluent reporting that they bought a mass-market brand with luxury features rather than a luxury brand," she said.
But rather than becoming discreet, Danzinger believes wealthy people want more value for their money. "They're no longer willing to pay a $20,000 premium to have a Lexus or Mercedes-Benz brand logo."
Why pay more?
In recent years, as mass-market brands introduced more entertainment and safety features into their models, auto executives have wondered if that might undermine the luxury car business. Traditionally, new technology was available first on luxury vehicles and then, years later, in more affordable models.
But that time gap is shrinking. "As we get more sophisticated, popularly priced cars with features like navigation, a vast array of safety equipment, fantastic sound systems, it becomes harder to justify a luxury brand purchase," Nerad said.
Pointing to Hyundai's luxury aspirant, the $32,250 Genesis car, he said: "You can get a non-luxury brand that virtually sings and dances for you."
Not surprisingly, most luxury carmakers dismiss the idea that luxury is losing its appeal.
"I don't have indications that our clientele would prefer to drive in small cars that are less safe and less comfortable," Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said.
"What they want," he said, perhaps because of social pressures tied to the environmental movement, "is lower fuel consumption." And Daimler will provide that, he said this week.
Toyota's Lexus, the top-selling luxury brand in the United States, expects premium auto sales to recover. "We are still bullish that the luxury market will grow faster than the mass market in the long run," said Mark Templin, general manager of Lexus in North America.
"But it may be different," he said, with more smaller and fuel-efficient vehicles in the luxury lineups of the future.
Executives at BMW say their customers are still loyal to the brand, but some are opting for smaller models. "We see some customers switching from bigger engines to smaller engines, and from larger series to smaller series, from the 5 Series to the 3 Series for example," said BMW spokesman Jan Ehlen.
A slowdown in leasing linked to the turmoil in the credit markets affected a few brands, such as Cadillac, but did not have a big impact on most luxury brands.
But if the shifts in the luxury car market persist, they will pose a serious challenge for manufacturers. Already, rising cost pressures and falling sales are putting pressure on them. "We have to figure out a way," Templin said, "to make it as profitable" as the business has been traditionally.
In Germany, Porsche has joined forces with Volkswagen AG, and its Audi brand, while BMW and Mercedes are exploring ways to cooperate and share costs.
In an effort to retain their cachet and their pricing power, luxury carmakers are developing models featuring advanced engine and other technologies to tap into the green movement.
Toyota will introduce the first Lexus designated hybrid, the HS 250h, in the fall, while Mercedes will introduce two hybrid models at the end of the year.
BMW outperformed most of its rivals in January after launching an ultra-clean diesel version of its X5 SUV late last year. Roger Olsen, sales and leasing manager at Suburban Porsche and Audi of Farmington Hills, says Audi sales at the dealership were up in the fourth quarter and in January, helped by new models such as the small and stylish A4.
But Porsche sales were down. Olsen is doing good business with out-of-state buyers attracted by the discounts. "People realize, if you've wanted a Porsche," he said, "there'll never be a better time to get them."
But there aren't many takers in Michigan for the legendary sports cars.
"A sports car is, let's say, a reward," Olsen said, and not many people feel like rewarding themselves.
You can reach Christine Tierney at ctierney@detnews.com.
02-20-09, 06:18 AM
#160
Guest
Posts: n/a
A couple of things.
1. This is the third time recently I've read how Lexus is saying the future in the luxury market is smaller cars. Funny I also just read this last night in the Lexus magazine from their lead designer. Now I don't know what they mean by "small". The HS is bigger than the IS. Could Lexus hatches etc be coming soon?
2. The statement about Audi/Acura is wrong b/c in the PAST they were understated in style but today they traded that in for giant grills and beaks, attention grabbing LED lighting and other "hey look at me" crap that is 10 years late. They will be avoided as well. If they STUCK to their previous way of doing things, they might have flourished.
1. This is the third time recently I've read how Lexus is saying the future in the luxury market is smaller cars. Funny I also just read this last night in the Lexus magazine from their lead designer. Now I don't know what they mean by "small". The HS is bigger than the IS. Could Lexus hatches etc be coming soon?
2. The statement about Audi/Acura is wrong b/c in the PAST they were understated in style but today they traded that in for giant grills and beaks, attention grabbing LED lighting and other "hey look at me" crap that is 10 years late. They will be avoided as well. If they STUCK to their previous way of doing things, they might have flourished.
02-20-09, 12:28 PM
#162
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-20-09, 12:34 PM
#163
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standard of what exactly? B/C outside of RECENTLY the Rabbit/GTi which seems to be tops in class with the Mazda 3, everything else is nice or good but not exactly class leading. There was a time when VW/Audi interiors were head and shoulders better than everyone but that time is past.
You really make me want to start hating VWs. To be honest I'm no big VW guy but I do think they make good products, just priced too high and their core message is lost. I still like the New Beetle the best
What exactly did the competition copy from the Golf, Passat, Touareg?
You really make me want to start hating VWs.
To be honest I'm no big VW guy but I do think they make good products, just priced too high and their core message is lost. I still like the New Beetle the best What exactly did the competition copy from the Golf, Passat, Touareg?
Passat has been continually debugged by the competition over the years as well. Like the Golf, there isn't much it doesn't do well. Interior, refinement, road manners, safety, convinience, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again, watch the competition start to offer direct injection as standard equipment a few years from now. Ditto on rear side airbags. Ditto on electronic parking brakes, rain sensing brake disks, etc.
And I didn't even mention how VW basically democratized the use of antennas on the roof and switchblade keys (back in 1999). I'd argue Toyota coppied the Jetta on the antenna (something vw has since moved away from). There are some similarities between the Corolla/Jetta design, but if you study both cars closley, the Jetta is better built - the underbody is fully galvanized, every door feels high quality, the paint is better, door pulls more substantial, and the interior...I know one's more expensive, but the difference is obvious.
02-21-09, 01:27 AM
#164
Pole Position
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It won't matter if the LX570 & GX470 are considered real Lexus or not because the Land Cruiser and Cruiser Prados are very expensive themselves already, more expensive anywhere than many of the so called "luxury brand" cars that Benz and BMW, are selling anywhere.
Even in the USA, they are selling well within the price range of any luxury car brands. It's like saying if you put a 3 point star or a propeller logo on a Land Cruiser, it's automatically a luxury car, but if you switch it back to the Toyota logo, then it isn't, because it's , well a Toyota, not a "luxury brand".
Had Mercedes and BMW made the exact same Land cruiser, it will be a bona fide Mercedes and BMW model selling well within their own price range, since it's the logo, not the car itself that matters ? Using brand to differentiate is sometimes so stupid.
The Land Cruiser is more high end in both luxury and specs. than some of the BMW and Mercedes models that they are selling even in the U.S., not to mention the lower end mercs and bimmers they are selling in the rest of the world that make up the vast majority of their sales.
Because Toyota had to split out their luxury models as a seperate Lexus brand, their "luxury car" production is often understated both in the US and even more so worldwide. Whereas Merc's and BMW's "Luxury brand" production are over stated for the same reasons, since if they are selling the exact same A and B-class, low specs 1-series, etc., in the USA that they are selling in Europe, they won't fall within the "luxury car" price range in the US, i.e, starting price of ~$30K or above. They will be selling in the price range of Honda's, Toyota's and Nissans, etc. ......
Even in the USA, they are selling well within the price range of any luxury car brands. It's like saying if you put a 3 point star or a propeller logo on a Land Cruiser, it's automatically a luxury car, but if you switch it back to the Toyota logo, then it isn't, because it's , well a Toyota, not a "luxury brand".
Had Mercedes and BMW made the exact same Land cruiser, it will be a bona fide Mercedes and BMW model selling well within their own price range, since it's the logo, not the car itself that matters ? Using brand to differentiate is sometimes so stupid.
The Land Cruiser is more high end in both luxury and specs. than some of the BMW and Mercedes models that they are selling even in the U.S., not to mention the lower end mercs and bimmers they are selling in the rest of the world that make up the vast majority of their sales.
Because Toyota had to split out their luxury models as a seperate Lexus brand, their "luxury car" production is often understated both in the US and even more so worldwide. Whereas Merc's and BMW's "Luxury brand" production are over stated for the same reasons, since if they are selling the exact same A and B-class, low specs 1-series, etc., in the USA that they are selling in Europe, they won't fall within the "luxury car" price range in the US, i.e, starting price of ~$30K or above. They will be selling in the price range of Honda's, Toyota's and Nissans, etc. ......
Autobild, which probably does the most comprehensive analysis of reliability in the industry, ranks VW 15th (for comparison, Hyundai rated 5th).
Last edited by YEH; 02-21-09 at 01:37 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Hoovey689
Car Chat
6
05-08-13 04:47 PM
