January 2009 Automobile Sales
02-04-09, 08:46 AM
#91
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Cars like the Borrego won't sell. But Hyundai does not have a line up filed with excess car models.
02-04-09, 08:48 AM
#92
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This is totally the wrong way to look at it and I hope this explains how the business works. I know you want to protect that ugly car but the fact is
-Acura said they STILL expect to sell 70k TLs this go round
-There is now 2 TL models instead of one
-The TSX has a sales goal of 40k
-Genesis sales goals are 25k
-CC sales goals I am unsure of but not high volume. Its a niche product built off the Passat
For the first time I can remember the TSX OUTSOLD the TL. The fact is the TL is Acuras Volume sedan. So basically a car expected to sell 40k a year outsold a car expected to sell 70k a year. That is not good at all. Even during bad times when the TL was older, it still sold over 4k units a month easy. The TL is their bread and butter as the MDX and both are in the dumps.
You cannot bring cars up with lesser sales goals. There is no production capacity to build more. The Genesis is not expected to sell that well.
The older ES and IS outsold the TL. Compared to what? The Tl was the 8th best selling car in its class AND its the NEWEST. The Maxima also outsold it. The ES is Lexus volume sedan. The IS will never outsell it b/c its not meant to sell as much.
There is nothing wrong with saying "you know what, Acura really fudged up this time with the TL".
Is the economy partially to blame? Yup for the TL and everyone. However, the economy is not the sole reason it selling so low. Its other poor/average merits are (which we have gone in detail in other threads).
Acura sales were already down 2 years in a row BEFORE last year. Last year made it 3 years in a row. This year will make it 4 years in a row. Mind you they have a pretty fresh lineup.
-Acura said they STILL expect to sell 70k TLs this go round
-There is now 2 TL models instead of one
-The TSX has a sales goal of 40k
-Genesis sales goals are 25k
-CC sales goals I am unsure of but not high volume. Its a niche product built off the Passat
For the first time I can remember the TSX OUTSOLD the TL. The fact is the TL is Acuras Volume sedan. So basically a car expected to sell 40k a year outsold a car expected to sell 70k a year. That is not good at all. Even during bad times when the TL was older, it still sold over 4k units a month easy. The TL is their bread and butter as the MDX and both are in the dumps.
You cannot bring cars up with lesser sales goals. There is no production capacity to build more. The Genesis is not expected to sell that well.
The older ES and IS outsold the TL. Compared to what? The Tl was the 8th best selling car in its class AND its the NEWEST. The Maxima also outsold it. The ES is Lexus volume sedan. The IS will never outsell it b/c its not meant to sell as much.
There is nothing wrong with saying "you know what, Acura really fudged up this time with the TL".
Is the economy partially to blame? Yup for the TL and everyone. However, the economy is not the sole reason it selling so low. Its other poor/average merits are (which we have gone in detail in other threads).
Acura sales were already down 2 years in a row BEFORE last year. Last year made it 3 years in a row. This year will make it 4 years in a row. Mind you they have a pretty fresh lineup.
I dare to disagree.
Lexus ES is going down to 2900. not that impressive number either.both of them are not performing well.
both ES and TL are Lexus and acura's bread and butter.
ES used to sell much more than BMW 5 and Mercede's E class.
and now there is not too much difference here.
seriously, I think ES should get a facelift as soon as possible.
lexus IS targets a differnt market, you can not simply add ES and IS together and compre the number with ACURA TL.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 02-11-09 at 03:50 PM. Reason: quoted post edit
02-04-09, 08:51 AM
#93
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02-04-09, 08:53 AM
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[QUOTE=rominl;4222290]
i really think audi is the new star here, and so far i love what they have done. the r8, the a5, the updated a4, now the new a6 and q5. they are attacking the market pretty well so far and we can see it on their positive sales trend. they are so "fresh" to everyone out there, imho that's part of the reason why they are selling well. this translates to potentially short term effect, they need something more than the led DRL and the slick body lines in order to grow further, especially to take on mb and bmw further. one thing i really like about audi is their finance structure. they control their quantity, keep up the rates, and make sure they are profitable. they don't just go after numbers blindly like bmw and mb. i admire them for that, that's the right way to do business in the long term.
========================
so do u think new A4 is stealing market share from the BMW 3 or from lexus IS?
i really think audi is the new star here, and so far i love what they have done. the r8, the a5, the updated a4, now the new a6 and q5. they are attacking the market pretty well so far and we can see it on their positive sales trend. they are so "fresh" to everyone out there, imho that's part of the reason why they are selling well. this translates to potentially short term effect, they need something more than the led DRL and the slick body lines in order to grow further, especially to take on mb and bmw further. one thing i really like about audi is their finance structure. they control their quantity, keep up the rates, and make sure they are profitable. they don't just go after numbers blindly like bmw and mb. i admire them for that, that's the right way to do business in the long term.
========================
so do u think new A4 is stealing market share from the BMW 3 or from lexus IS?
02-04-09, 08:56 AM
#95
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I dare to disagree.
Lexus ES is going down to 2900. not that impressive number either.both of them are not performing well.
both ES and TL are Lexus and acura's bread and butter.
ES used to sell much more than BMW 5 and Mercede's E class.
and now there is not too much difference here.
seriously, I think ES should get a facelift as soon as possible.
lexus IS targets a differnt market, you can not simply add ES and IS together and compre the number with ACURA TL.
Lexus ES is going down to 2900. not that impressive number either.both of them are not performing well.
both ES and TL are Lexus and acura's bread and butter.
ES used to sell much more than BMW 5 and Mercede's E class.
and now there is not too much difference here.
seriously, I think ES should get a facelift as soon as possible.
lexus IS targets a differnt market, you can not simply add ES and IS together and compre the number with ACURA TL.
1. The ES debuted 3 years ago. The TL debuted barely 4 months ago.
2. We are not talking about the ES, that is another conversation. However the ES STILL outsold the TL.
3. I didn't add ES or IS together? If you look at the list provided the IS and ES SEPERATELY outsold the TL and they are OLDER models. One of the reasons the ALL NEW TL is 8th in sales.
You think the ES should get a facelift soon (it will anyway)? The TL needs an entire lift soon. A lift into the ocean. A facelift won't help it.
Wow, I can say the GS isn't doing so well but some of you guys cannot say "the TL isn't doing well".
Sigh..................
02-04-09, 08:59 AM
#96
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The GS amazingly still has been 3rd best selling in class the last 3 years. Not bad for a Lexus double and not the usual Lexus home run.
02-04-09, 09:18 AM
#98
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02-04-09, 09:24 AM
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As I stated, I didn't expect what I said to be understood by people who refuse to open their eyes.
1. The ES debuted 3 years ago. The TL debuted barely 4 months ago.
2. We are not talking about the ES, that is another conversation. However the ES STILL outsold the TL.
3. I didn't add ES or IS together? If you look at the list provided the IS and ES SEPERATELY outsold the TL and they are OLDER models. One of the reasons the ALL NEW TL is 8th in sales.
You think the ES should get a facelift soon (it will anyway)? The TL needs an entire lift soon. A lift into the ocean. A facelift won't help it.
Wow, I can say the GS isn't doing so well but some of you guys cannot say "the TL isn't doing well".
Sigh..................
1. The ES debuted 3 years ago. The TL debuted barely 4 months ago.
2. We are not talking about the ES, that is another conversation. However the ES STILL outsold the TL.
3. I didn't add ES or IS together? If you look at the list provided the IS and ES SEPERATELY outsold the TL and they are OLDER models. One of the reasons the ALL NEW TL is 8th in sales.
You think the ES should get a facelift soon (it will anyway)? The TL needs an entire lift soon. A lift into the ocean. A facelift won't help it.
Wow, I can say the GS isn't doing so well but some of you guys cannot say "the TL isn't doing well".
Sigh..................
1. BMW 3-Series - 5,013, -26.8%
2. Cadillac CTS - 3,418, -38.2%
3. Mercedes C-Class - 3,032, -34.8%
4. Lexus ES - 2,971, 34.3%
5. Infiniti G sedan - 2,609, -22.6%
6. Lexus IS - 2,400, -29.3%
7. Acura TL - 2,317, -31.4
8. Audi A4 - 2,058, -29.4%
9. Lincoln MKZ - 1,561, -42.4%
10. Volvo S60 - 275, -83.9%
Sales are bad for everyone, but the TL numbers aren't as bad some make them out to be. Heck, the ALL NEW TL outsold the ALL NEW A4. What's your excuse for Audi (at least the TL has the grill)? Oh, and sales goals? Are you serious? Do you really think any car maker is expecting to hit their initial sales goals for the year? Oh I forgot, only Acura is supposed to hit their initial sales goals. Put down the haterade and join us in the real world.
02-04-09, 09:35 AM
#100
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January 2009 Sales
1. BMW 3-Series - 5,013, -26.8%
2. Cadillac CTS - 3,418, -38.2%
3. Mercedes C-Class - 3,032, -34.8%
4. Lexus ES - 2,971, 34.3%
5. Infiniti G sedan - 2,609, -22.6%
6. Lexus IS - 2,400, -29.3%
7. Acura TL - 2,317, -31.4
8. Audi A4 - 2,058, -29.4%
9. Lincoln MKZ - 1,561, -42.4%
10. Volvo S60 - 275, -83.9%
Sales are bad for everyone, but the TL numbers aren't as bad some make them out to be. Heck, the ALL NEW TL outsold the ALL NEW A4. What's your excuse for Audi (at least the TL has the grill)? Oh, and sales goals? Are you serious? Do you really think any car maker is expecting to hit their initial sales goals for the year? Oh I forgot, only Acura is supposed to hit their initial sales goals. Put down the haterade and join us in the real world.
1. BMW 3-Series - 5,013, -26.8%
2. Cadillac CTS - 3,418, -38.2%
3. Mercedes C-Class - 3,032, -34.8%
4. Lexus ES - 2,971, 34.3%
5. Infiniti G sedan - 2,609, -22.6%
6. Lexus IS - 2,400, -29.3%
7. Acura TL - 2,317, -31.4
8. Audi A4 - 2,058, -29.4%
9. Lincoln MKZ - 1,561, -42.4%
10. Volvo S60 - 275, -83.9%
Sales are bad for everyone, but the TL numbers aren't as bad some make them out to be. Heck, the ALL NEW TL outsold the ALL NEW A4. What's your excuse for Audi (at least the TL has the grill)? Oh, and sales goals? Are you serious? Do you really think any car maker is expecting to hit their initial sales goals for the year? Oh I forgot, only Acura is supposed to hit their initial sales goals. Put down the haterade and join us in the real world.
As I stated, the facts will fall on your deaf ears and your low expectations for the brand fog facts.
-The A4 NEVER EVER has sold like the TL and has NEVER had sales goals like the Tl. Its NOT SUPPOSED to sell like the TL. Yet it only sold 300 less units than the TL!
-The TL is Acura's HIGHEST VOLUME VEHICLE and sold WORSE than their own TSX which has nearly half the sales goal
-I didn't say Acura wants to sell 70k. ACURA SAID they want to still sell 70k TLs.
You don't think the newest vehicle sold (the TL) and the highest volume Acura sold selling 7th in class and less than their own much lower volume TSX is a problem?
Again is the economy bad? Yup. Is if affecting everyone? Yup. Is it clear Acura is part of their own problem with the TL? Yup.
Its okay to admit when the company you like messes up. I can say the 1GS was a sales disaster after the first year. I can say the IS 300 was a sales disaster after the first 2 years.
Why can't you and others just admit "You know what, Acura missed the mark here".
Everyone in here knows Acura doesn't build bad cars but Acura missed the mark on the new TL. Period.
02-04-09, 09:39 AM
#101
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On par? The GS highest sales goal was 34k which is surpassed in 2006. It NEVER was meant to sell as much as the 5 or E. Again, the 5 and E are higher volume with many more varients.
The GS amazingly still has been 3rd best selling in class the last 3 years. Not bad for a Lexus double and not the usual Lexus home run.
The GS amazingly still has been 3rd best selling in class the last 3 years. Not bad for a Lexus double and not the usual Lexus home run.
I didn't see it.
but I agree GS needs more variants in its next generation.The mid-level is a big market.
Mid-Level
1. 5 - 2,596
2. E - 1,768
3. MKS - 1,535
4. M - 1,176
5. GS - 898
6. A6 - 776
7. S80 - 473
8. STS - 413
9. RL - 208
10. 9-5 - 101
02-04-09, 09:45 AM
#102
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We both know Audis and love them but its becoming clear 
they just won't ever sell better in America. For years I've said there is only room for 3 Tier 1 brands. BMW/Benz/Lexus. Its not like any of those 3 are losing sight of the game so that continues to make it tougher for Audi. The 3 series outsold Audi!!! That is crazy!!! Sad b/c they make a great product.
!
they just won't ever sell better in America. For years I've said there is only room for 3 Tier 1 brands. BMW/Benz/Lexus. Its not like any of those 3 are losing sight of the game so that continues to make it tougher for Audi. The 3 series outsold Audi!!! That is crazy!!! Sad b/c they make a great product. !
in general, 3 is kind of stable in nature,
american's big 3. japanese big 3.etc.
02-04-09, 09:45 AM
#103
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That's only January 2009 though^^, the GS has always been the third best selling in it's class since it was launched in 2005, we can only speculate whether that would still hold in the coming years before the 4GS ...
02-04-09, 09:49 AM
#104
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02-04-09, 09:54 AM
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If you accuse others of haterade, you must accuse yourself of drinking sheepade.
As I stated, the facts will fall on your deaf ears and your low expectations for the brand fog facts.
-The A4 NEVER EVER has sold like the TL and has NEVER had sales goals like the Tl. Its NOT SUPPOSED to sell like the TL. Yet it only sold 300 less units than the TL!
-The TL is Acura's HIGHEST VOLUME VEHICLE and sold WORSE than their own TSX which has nearly half the sales goal
-I didn't say Acura wants to sell 70k. ACURA SAID they want to still sell 70k TLs.
You don't think the newest vehicle sold (the TL) and the highest volume Acura sold selling 7th in class and less than their own much lower volume TSX is a problem?
Again is the economy bad? Yup. Is if affecting everyone? Yup. Is it clear Acura is part of their own problem with the TL? Yup.
Its okay to admit when the company you like messes up. I can say the 1GS was a sales disaster after the first year. I can say the IS 300 was a sales disaster after the first 2 years.
Why can't you and others just admit "You know what, Acura missed the mark here".
Everyone in here knows Acura doesn't build bad cars but Acura missed the mark on the new TL. Period.
As I stated, the facts will fall on your deaf ears and your low expectations for the brand fog facts.
-The A4 NEVER EVER has sold like the TL and has NEVER had sales goals like the Tl. Its NOT SUPPOSED to sell like the TL. Yet it only sold 300 less units than the TL!
-The TL is Acura's HIGHEST VOLUME VEHICLE and sold WORSE than their own TSX which has nearly half the sales goal
-I didn't say Acura wants to sell 70k. ACURA SAID they want to still sell 70k TLs.
You don't think the newest vehicle sold (the TL) and the highest volume Acura sold selling 7th in class and less than their own much lower volume TSX is a problem?
Again is the economy bad? Yup. Is if affecting everyone? Yup. Is it clear Acura is part of their own problem with the TL? Yup.
Its okay to admit when the company you like messes up. I can say the 1GS was a sales disaster after the first year. I can say the IS 300 was a sales disaster after the first 2 years.
Why can't you and others just admit "You know what, Acura missed the mark here".
Everyone in here knows Acura doesn't build bad cars but Acura missed the mark on the new TL. Period.
OK< TL is not doing well. that's for sure.
but please take a look at sale numbers of LExus ES.
TL always sells less than lexus ES, about 2/3.
and now the ratio is about the same.
and I agree b/c it's a new geneation. the ratio should be higher.
in terms of this, you are right, TL missed its target ...
but i think it didn't miss too much.