joe80

only fault you will find is the silver dash. that's about it. i have yet to met a person who didn't like the ride.

rdgdawg

Ahhhhhhhhh... that explains it!!!

Gojirra99

The current generation LS came out as a Lexus, never branded a Toyota anywhere in the world.
It will be this way from now on for all new Lexus models I think ...

bagwell

ok smart guy --- I don't care what they are/were named in Japan or on the moon....I don't live in Japan...along with 99% of the people on this forum....

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

I still don't like the interior...

spray can painted silver dash
brown leather
lighter brown leather dash
wood grain
bright chrome strip around the dash/door (that's gotta be bright during sunset)
top interior color doesn't match with any of the interior panel.

and that 1980s Timex watch right in the middle!!!!!

YEH

Uhh, how is Hyundai "cheap" considering that it is spending billions in R&D (Hyundai is only one of 4 automakers to develop an in-house 6 spd auto tranny - the other 3 being Toyota and GM/Ford via a joint venture and will be one of the few to offer an 8-spd; not to mention developing a V-8 that made Ward Auto's Ten Best Engines list for 2009).

And as already stated, Hyundai asked the public to choose btwn 2 grilles - one w/ the Hyundai logo and one w/o. The public chose w/o (was a wise decision since the Hyundai logo doesn't exactly connotate upscale w/ its squiggly lines).

And keep in mind when the LS was launched in the US - it was priced "cheaply" at around $38,000 (I guess according to you, it must mean that it was a "fake-expensive" car; also keep in mind that the Genesis sedan sells in Korea for considerably more, albeit the KDM version has "goodies" that the US version doesn't have such as an air suspension).

One can say the same thing for any no. of Infinitis/Nissans, Acuras/Hondas and yes Lexus - all of whom which have copied the Hoffmeister kink from BMW.

Right, but until a few years ago, a person driving an LS, GS, etc. in Japan (and a few other places)

Which just proves that you (and a big chunk of the US) are "brandwh*res".

It's the same reason why we Americans go gaga over Mercedes - when Mercedes in Europe is seen as a full-line auto manufacturer selling the econobox A and B Class models alongside the $100K+ S Class; also the reason why Mercedes offers the B Class in Canada and not in the US.

In addition, "stripped down" Mercedes are common in Europe (esp. as taxi cabs) w/ weak engines and fake leather, hardly belying Mercedes' "lux" image here in the US.

As they say, some people are true auto enthusiasts who can respect good product from any manufacturer, others are merely pretenders who are nothing but brand "wh*res".

JKA.nyc

Another argument I don't get, at least Toyota launched the LS as a separate luxury brand in the US.

Reality check buddy, it's not just the US which is why brands like Prada, LV Mercedes etc etc exist. Go to any developed or near developed country and it will be the same.

That's Japan, like bagwell said a good majority of the members here are NOT in Japan.
Also, IMO Hyundai is still NOT at Toyota's level yet, and not right behind them either but still has a ways to go to get there so to claim they're at a level even above that just seems ridiculous to me.

I'm not trying to say the Genesis is a bad vehicle, but think about it, saying that brand doesn't matter in a luxury product is a bit contradictory is it not? I'm not trying to say that luxury is all about brand, but to say it shouldn't or doesn't have anything to do with it just doesn't make sense.

Hyundai's cut and paste styling language doesn't help either and is no better than the Chinese car companies cloning, at least they don't pretend to be something they are not, it's just a straight up case of you get what you pay for.
At least if Hyundai were going to claim the Genesis a luxury vehicle they could at the very least not rip off the vehicles they are trying to compete against and then claim it's supposed to be better than them.

Just because Hyundai put leather and wood trim in the Genesis does not make it a luxury vehicle.

YEH

Auto enthusiasts care more for the actual product than what badging a model carries.

Reality check yourself, "buddy" (you're missing my point).

Of course, people are "brand wh*res" pretty much everywhere, but the US (being a car culture) is particular in being more so about it w/ regard to autos than anywhere else.

More so than anywhere else, you are what you drive in the US (aside from maybe Manhattan where the prime importance is where you live and what sq. footage your apt. is) - it's no accident that this type of thinking is probably most evident in LA (where you pretty much have to drive everywhere).

That's why Mercedes, Lexus, etc. have different marketing/branding strategies for the US.

Once again, you miss the point.

Not yet, but they are getting very close - there's a reason why the CEO of Toyota considers Hyundai, and not Honda, the biggest threat.

Yes and no.

It doesn't matter w/ regard to the actual product, but it does matter w/ regard to intangibles such as "that warm fuzzy feeling" in letting the world know that you drive a lux make automobile.

Case in point, most people of affluence buy Armani, Ralph Lauren, Valentino, etc. suits b/c of the brand name on the label.

The top of the line Armani and Ralph Lauren suits are the black and purple label suits, respectively.

These suits (retailing for around $2k) used to be manufactured at the Vestimenta (a garment maker) factory in Italy.

One could, however, have picked up a Vestimenta suit for the same price of Armani's/Lauren's lower line (around $1500 retail).

Most people have never heard of Vestimenta - is letting people know you wear Armani or Lauren worth the $500 in diff.?

Sorry, but borrowing styling cues is different from outright cloning (where body panels can be exchanged).

Hyundai, rightly so, made the Genesis derivative on purpose since they figured that the public would have a hard time accepting BOTH a luxury auto AND a new design scheme at the same time (once established, Hyundai plans on developing their own "look").

But then again - pretty much everything is derivative these days.

Many automakers (including Lexus) have lifted the "Bangle butt" from BMW (actually, Volvo was the first to have the lifted trunk) and Mercedes, Buick and others borrowed the "eyebrow" turn signal that originated w/ BMWs.

Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Lexus, Buick, Hyundai, etc. have all borrowed the BMW Hoffmeister "kink" in a no. of models.

Take a look at the current Accord - the front is reminiscent of a 2008 Sonata, the side is all Nissan by way of BMW and the rear screams Saturn.

And c'mon, it's not like Lexus didn't get criticism for derivative styling/copying either.

In particular, the 3rd gen LS430 screams S Class (esp. w/ regard to the side/greenhouse) and the current LS took its lines from the 7 Series.

I guess you know better than all the professional auto reviewers/journalists who think otherwise.

Gee, I guess a V-8 (which made Ward Auto's Ten Best Engines list), one of the best audio systems in an auto today, the use of high tensile steel and sound deadening, etc. doesn't make it a "lux" vehicle at all.

I guess Toyota stuffing what is basically a Camry (w/ diff. sheetmetal) w/ leather and wood trim doesn't make the ES a lux vehicle as well - LOL!

(And yes, I'm aware of all the differences btwn the Camry and the ES, esp. the current version of the ES).

Epik151

In what way is Hyundai not caught up to Toyota yet? I would say in quality and reliability, they've surpassed them. If you look at CR, they're right alongside, but if you look at TrueDelta, Hyundai's newer models are doing better.

The exterior/interior design is improving at a rapid pace and now even Kia is putting out better looking cars than Toyota/Honda.

Warranty-wise, Hyundai has had Toyota beat for a while now.

With the Genesis Coupe... Hyundai is now more exciting than Honda & Toyota put together.

Toyota is still ahead in total sales. VW has stated they will pass Toyota in 10 years. I'd rather put my money on Hyundai.

Gytis123

iTrader: (11)

Hyundai is really getting the hang of making nicer cars.. it is looking more of a mercedes though

JKA.nyc

Like you said, most people have never heard of Vestimenta, myself included. I'm sure if most people did know the only difference at all between the suits were the label they would opt for the Vestimenta instead, but to be honest in reality people buying 1.5k-2k suits probably just might not care about a $500 difference.

C'mon just look at the grill on the sedan is that just a "derivative" of the Benz grill or "borrowing a styling cue"? As for the coupe, just look at those side by side pics with the G37.

Like I said before, I'm not trying to knock the quality of the vehicle itself, I'm sure it's good I just think that you need more than just a good product for the luxury market in any industry, just my opinion.

LexBob2

It's surprising to me that in spite of all the positive reviews and awards, the Genesis isn't selling better.

In January a miserable month for all car makers, it was outsold by Maxima, TL (2 to 1 by Max and TL) MKS and VW CC.

I wonder if the general car buying public still hasn't warmed up to a luxury model from Hyundai. My guess is that Hyundai is patient and will stick with it for the long run.

joe80

only thing toyota has on hyundai is sales numbers and perception of people. when comparing car for cars hyundai is right up there with toyota.

sooner or later hyundai will be one of the volume sellers passing nissan. i can see hyundai outselling nissan within next 10 years.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

Actually, this is not true. Countries in Asia, especially Taiwan, HongKong, Singapore, and China, are ultimate brandwh*res. If you live there for a while you will see that most consumers there consider Mercedes and BMWs to be far more superior than any other car makers. They would rather buy Mercedes C200 (C-class with a 1.8 liter 4-cyl engine) over a fully-loaded w/NAV IS250 or a ES350 with the same price. The Genesis, if sold in those countries, can only attract people who really can not afford a Mercedes or a BMW. They will NOT think of it as a luxury car, because even Corollas can be equipped with lots of wood and leather in those places. Brand is everything there.

In contrast, consumers in the US are much less brandwh*res, because they are much more well-informed, with the highest degree of internet data usage and autoshows that are open to the public.

joe80

it's just a matter of time hyundai becomes one of those top brands especially if they do come out with a luxury brand. just look at what samsung has done in last 10 years. and just look what hyundai has done in last 10 years. globalization helps, but it's the korean's relentless work ethic and 'small country' complex which helps them grow and achieve greatness. just read about samsung's new 8mega pixel HD phone, and solar powered phone. they are coming up with new technology and invention every month now. just 15-20 years ago, samsung was a joke of a company. now, they are laughing at sony. go back in time, what would guys thought of hyundai in 1999? it was an absolute garbage. they were a rock bottom of the food chain. none of us would've thought hyundai would be any more signicant 10 years later. i'm betting that hyundai will be a serious powerhouse by 2020. they got the money and desire to do it.

times are changing, and koreans are coming after the big boys. genesis really was the start of the new chapter. it will be as significant as lexus LS.