YEH

They would care if they knew that the 1.5k Vestimenta suit was equal to the 2k Purple Label Ralph Lauren suit and BETTER than the 1.5k Ralph Lauren suit.

Is it any more derivative of the Benz grille (note - Hyundai added its own take w/ the klingon/watergfall effect) than the LS's grille or that of Acura and others (basically horizontal-slatted grille minus the middle divider)?

And how "original" is the grille for the GS w/ its vertical slatted grille?

Basically - pretty much every luxury auto has either some type of horizontal or vertically slatted grille (the other option being mesh for sport models).

Take a look at the grilles from past Lexus, Acura and Infiniti models - you'll find many that are reminiscent of Mercedes, Jaguar, Buick and Lincoln.

As for the GenCoupe (wasn't this already covered?) - yeah, it has the same general coupe shape, which is why it looks just as much (if not more) like the previous gen Tiburon as it does the G37 (note - the front and rear of the GenCoupe is totally diff. from the G37 and even on the side, it's diff w/ the character lines and window "dip").

Sorry if you can't get over the general coupe shape.

You're confusing "luxury product" w/ "luxury brand".

Based on your premise - a $70k fully-equipped Toyota Land Cruiser is not a luxury product (being merely a Toyota) while the econobox Mercedes A Class hatch is simply b/c it's a "Benz".


All those autos are more mainstream and have a built in customer-base.

The Genesis is selling just about as well as the M35/45 (probably would be selling better if the Gen was also offered w/ AWD) and is selling at a better than 3:2 ratio than the GS and A6/S6.

Uhh, today's market is partly why the Genesis is doing as well as it is - on par w/ the M and better than the GS and A6.

Uhh, then why is the Rohens (aka Genesis) sold in China at a higher price than the US (the Chinese version isn't stripped down like the US Genesis and starts at over $58k) and why is Buick more popular in China than the US?

And sorry - SKorea and Japan have much higher internet usage than the US.

Otoh, Audi (the German "pretender") sells better in W. Europe than BMW or MB, but trails both by a good margin in the US.

JKA.nyc

Before we continue, I just want to make my stance clear so people don't misconstrue anything I say. I'm saying that the genesis is NOT a luxury vehicle, I'm not hating on it or whatever other over zealous Korea defenders might take it as.

Ok so,

How is it that the vestimenta suits would be better than the rebadged suits if like you said they're the same but rebadged?

I'm not confusing product w/ brand, seems to me that you would need a luxury brand to sell a luxury product. Its like buying a pair of shoes in payless as opposed to neiman marcus. BIG difference.
Like I said, quality product alone is not enough. Its just the truth. No matter how good quality those shoes in payless are, people are not going to compare them with anything in neiman marcus. This is not me, its reality.

Toyota does not market itself as a luxury company and rightfully so or else what point would there be for Lexus? So yes you're right I wouldn't consider the landcruiser luxury, I believe that's what the LX is for.
As for the benz I don't know I never seen one so it would hbe nice for you not to jump to conclusions. Although b/c benz markets itself as a luxury marque here since the beginning, I would think it fair to do so, doesn't mean it wouldn't be a POS.

edit: It's probably also why MB doesn't release their Euro econo boxes over here as well for fear of ruining their brand image.

The grill- derivative is putting it nicely, seriously now, just LOOK at it. The LS and GS grills don't even come close to looking like the cars they were "derived" from like the genesis
The only thing missing is the 3 point star. Yes there's a limit to how different grills can look, but if you slapped a benz/buick/jag or whatever on those other cars you probably wouldn't be so easily fooled.

As for the gensis coupe, its a cookie cutter cutout.

KA8

iTrader: (1)

^
Actually MB in europe isn't as luxurious as it is in US. It's only in the US that badge really matters. I had no problem shopping at payless for shoes. One pair last me 5 years. I've bought some brand name shoes for $200 and they fall apart within a year. Brand name isn't everything. If a car company doesn't see the need to make another brand for luxury brand I'm sure they've done alot of homework. Timing is everything and I believe Hyundai was smart not going luxury brand route at this time.

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

Uhh, because if you have understanding in the general trend in Asian automobile prices, you will be aware that cars in Asia are simply more expensive than the US. Only domestic-made vehicles in those countries will be reasonably priced. Take the Camry for example, a 4-cylinder 2.4 liter Camry fully loaded in China would cost about 40k USD. Surprised?

Uhh, regarding Buick, I assume you don't know much about their brand image in China. Buick goes way back to the Emperor days, and is more popular in China than the US because it has been considered the epitome of luxury brands to the common folks. It is sort of like what Cadillac is to many Americans; they don't make the best cars, but people THINK they're all that.

And sorry - SKorea and Japan's internet usage does not prove anything. My point in bringing that up was to state the fact that information is very limited over the internet for China, as they are restricted to very limited data. SKoreans buy what they want, and without getting into the racial issue again, yes they love to buy Korean products, which is natural. And Japanese people really DON'T use the world wide web that much, their internet is built on their cellular infrastructure and used mainly for WAP and e-mails. The things you said weren't really relevant.

Mochiko

WOW. Just moved to Washinton D.C. from Yokohama for my work and came across this site while searching for the car to adopt while in Wahington D.C. for a year. Didn't know Lexus is so popular.

Mochiko

Are you kidding? I am a Korean/Japanese mixed lived in both countries for all my life and I can tell you that both countries are heavily wired and most young generations are connected to the internet. and yes, we use mobile phones too for wire and to watch live TV. This goes for both Japan and Korea.

JKA.nyc

Again, not only in the US, and if we are ahead in this category it isn't by much at all.
You guys are completely missing my point/s, I'm not saying the car sucks because it's a Hyundai or anything like that, I'm saying that as good of a car the Genesis may be, just being a good car is not enough for the luxury status.

You're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say, I never said that the shoes wouldn't be as good, but the truth is nobody is going to walk into Payless and consider anything in there to be luxury no matter how high quality the shoes are, whereas you going to a high end department store such as Neiman Marcus etc etc people are going to consider all their stuff "luxury" no matter how much crappier the shoes are in terms of quality Maybe not everybody obviously, but the vast majority will.
Just look at MB, only until recently did their reliability improve but before that they were building junk yet they never left the tier 1 category did they?
Yes I know brand name isn't everything, except when it comes to trying to market and sell a luxury product, then yes brand counts for a substantial amount of said product's success, just like with MB.
Yes, I also know MB isn't as luxurious in Europe as it is here, but then again this is not Europe is it? As far as I know MB is tier 1 in Europe as well.

Can you blame people for thinking of Hyundai the way they do? HYundai did it to themselves, they marketed themselves for a long time as a cheaper alternative to the competition, is this not true? And now all of a sudden they introduce one new car under the same name and expect the whole world or at least the entire US to change its perception? It's not that easy, go ask Acura and Infiniti. And Yes I KNOW why they didn't launch a luxury brand as of yet, but that is not the point here.

What is the Genesis main selling point? It's a quality,cheaper alternative to the cars it was meant to compete with, 35k as opposed 45k up to 60k for the competition, along with the rest of its models.

Toyota/Nissan/Honda make good cars also, don't you think if they could have avoided spending billions on launching their luxury marques that they would have? What is it that makes the Genesis luxury, while cars like the Maxima/Accord/Camry which all have options for leather and wood trim not? Because the Hyundai commercial said so?

So if I got this all wrong, then please, by all means tell me what it is that I'm missing, what it is that separates luxury from non luxury. Seriously now think real hard what it is that separates the luxury from non luxury, and tell me what it is about the Genesis that it should be considered a luxury car while cars w/ just as good build quality and options are not.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I thought they were going to stick with the hyundai sunday badge too.

Every genesis I see have the wing badge both front and the back

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

Welcome to CL, it's very cool to sign up for CL looking for a Lexus in Washington D.C. and the first post you post in is the Canadian Car of the Year thread discussing Korean cars in China

I think that both of you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. First, Koreans tend to support their own domestic products (which is a good thing that every country should do), so it doesn't matter if they are well informed or not, they will be buying Korean for the most part. Second, yes the Japanese young generations are connected to the internet, but utilizing it for research (for things like cars, the topic of this discussion) is not as comprehensive as the United States, where most if not all informed buyers research on the internet.

Back to what I was saying, to make it more clear, I would like to say that U.S. consumers certainly do more research on the internet when compared to other nations.

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

+1. While the younger generation Japanese are wired, they're internet literacy/netiquette is a joke compared to here.

and YEH, so you still think that the transmissions are designed in-house? I think Honda is about the only company that does everything in-house.

sirCharles

That Genesis is a top notch vehicle, I see them a lot now and it is just so hot!

Hyundai just could afford the hundreds of millions if not a few billion dollars it was going to take to create a new luxury division...so the name has stuck. Too bad, but the car is a certain new platform.

Gosh, I want one so bad, perhaps in a model year or two I will have it.

sirCharles

Korean technology ROCKS! So does the Genesis LOL!

YEH

Er, what's your point?

A Mercedes is more expensive here and in China than in Germany.

Otoh, the Genesis is more expensive in China and Korea than in the US.

See the difference?

Oh, please. While many Chinese do have the "warm fuzzies" about the Buick brand, they are hardly beholden to the brand.

VW is now the best selling brand in China and Buick sales have dropped sharply (while Chevy sales have increased, as well as that for Caddy).

And fyi - Cadillac, not Buick, is to the Chinese as Cadillac is to Americans.

Uhh, information which relates to politics or other verboten stuff is limited to the Chinese.

Information about commercial products such as autos is widely available (heck, the younger, urban Chinese all watch "Friends", "Sex in the City", etc. by downloading via the net).

As for the SKoreans - the no. of import autos sold in SK has risen sharply the past couple of years and guess what's the no.1 foreign brand?

Honda - that's right, a Japanese brand.

And yeah, the Japanese never look up stuff on the web - lol! (As if they can't get the web on their cellphones).

Again - you are mixing "luxury product" w/ "luxury brand".

Based on your premise, a $30k diamond necklace from Costco isn't "luxury."

Uhh, what's the issue here?

Hyundai isn't looking to be seen as a luxury brand.

They just happen to put forth a more upscale product as their "halo" model.

It's not that diff. from Chevy selling the Vette and Toyota selling the $60k Land Cruiser.

Gee, wasn't that the original LS's main selling point?

Like you said, leather/wood trim does not make a luxury auto.

It's the engineering, the powerplant, the type of amenities (does the Camry have a Lexicon sound system that is considered one of the best audio systems on the market?), etc.

Look at it this way.

There isn't that much of a difference btwn a fully load Toyota Land Cruiser and the Lexus LX (esp. the first 2 generations).

Are you going to tell me that a fully loaded Land Cruiser isn't "luxurious", but yet simply rebadging it as the LX makes it so?

Uhh, I never said that the trannies for the Genesis (if that's where you're getting at) were designed in-house since the Genesis uses trannies from Aisin or ZF presently.

However, the Genesis will soon get a new 8 spd trannie and other Hyundai/Kia models will get a new 6 spd trannie developed by Hyundai.

And as I stated previously, only 4 auto manufacturers have developed their own in-house 6 spd trannie (Toyota, GM/Ford and Hyundai).

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

I didn't make the point, you did. You started the whole idea that more expensive = luxury. You said that the Genesis is a real luxury car because it is more expensive in China, so I was simply telling you that cars in China are just more expensive by default. So now you think you don't have a point anymore, I'm fine with that.


VW is the best selling brand because they're cheaper since some models are built in China. And why bring up VW anyways?

fyi maybe you should visit China sometimes, it'll teach you alot of new things.


right, i'm sure the younger, urban Chinese downing via the net is the vast majority of population in the US. If you don't see the difference between me describing the general trend of internet users researching contents online vs you finding young generations of DLers downloading movies then that's too bad.

fyi the number 1 foreign brand does NOT mean it outsells domestic cars.

next time if you get a chance to go to japan, try to use the web on their cell phone. it's not an adequate tool for researching, and i never said they don't "look up" stuff, don't change what I said.

LexBob2

Based on current sales, it seems like the Genesis will be a nice upscale sedan. Not a game changer, but one that will compete with the other new upscale sedans being launched right now (Maxima, MKS, TL). The competition will be good for the consumer.