Next Gen GS should roll out two versions
02-13-09, 07:22 PM
#31
Lexus Connoisseur
I really doubt a manual trans for a 4GS will be in the future. Look at the direction of the IS F and the 8 speed sport direct-shift automatic. Lexus designed the IS F to be a medium between the C63 AMG and the M3. It's a balance of both.
02-14-09, 06:54 AM
#32
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02-14-09, 07:02 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
i disagree with that 50%
i drove all 3 cars.
the merc is heavy and slow, and doesn't handle any better. it's not good at anything.
the bmw is better, but not A LOT better. it does feel more nimble.
02-14-09, 07:08 AM
#34
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Lexus simply needs to apply the IS formula to the 4GS, but in a more beefed up package.
IS offers a sport package- actually it has offered two: X Package and Sport suspension option. 4GS needs something similar but with bigger wheels, sway bars, stiffer shocks and springs, unique wheels, and maybe very minimal and tasteful body accents. This package should be available on both the 3X0 and 460, and even the standard suspension should be beefed up over what it is now.
At the bottom end, the ES is about the same size if not larger and makes for a compelling luxo cruiser, and same goes for the LS at the top end. So if you could spend a little less and get about the same equipment and ride in an ES, or a little more and get all of the features and prestige of an LS, would you not do it? Doh! Americans ARE doing it and the sales numbers reflect this month over month. The GS is not what people want in this segment and it's two biggest competitors are in-house. Lexus needs to distinguish this car BADLY, just like what they did with the IS and ES.
Bottom line...people aren't buying midsize luxury sedans to coast down sunset drive or to get sick to their stomach during any type of spirited driving. 5 Series and E class are both a testament to this- people want some feeling, some feedback, and some control. They want some EMOTION. The GS needs to draw something out of the driver like the competition does and it needs to be more sport focused. Period. I'm not saying that as an enthusiast, I am saying that as a consumer and someone who has spoken to several owners of E Classes, 5 Series, and Infiniti Ms who all say the GS was really not that soft, and really not that fun to drive either. It doesn't do anything particularly well and for that reason people are buying ES 350s, LS 460s, 5 Series, or E classes. GS makes too many compromises with too few rewards.
Lexus, get serious.
End Rant.
IS offers a sport package- actually it has offered two: X Package and Sport suspension option. 4GS needs something similar but with bigger wheels, sway bars, stiffer shocks and springs, unique wheels, and maybe very minimal and tasteful body accents. This package should be available on both the 3X0 and 460, and even the standard suspension should be beefed up over what it is now.
At the bottom end, the ES is about the same size if not larger and makes for a compelling luxo cruiser, and same goes for the LS at the top end. So if you could spend a little less and get about the same equipment and ride in an ES, or a little more and get all of the features and prestige of an LS, would you not do it? Doh! Americans ARE doing it and the sales numbers reflect this month over month. The GS is not what people want in this segment and it's two biggest competitors are in-house. Lexus needs to distinguish this car BADLY, just like what they did with the IS and ES.
Bottom line...people aren't buying midsize luxury sedans to coast down sunset drive or to get sick to their stomach during any type of spirited driving. 5 Series and E class are both a testament to this- people want some feeling, some feedback, and some control. They want some EMOTION. The GS needs to draw something out of the driver like the competition does and it needs to be more sport focused. Period. I'm not saying that as an enthusiast, I am saying that as a consumer and someone who has spoken to several owners of E Classes, 5 Series, and Infiniti Ms who all say the GS was really not that soft, and really not that fun to drive either. It doesn't do anything particularly well and for that reason people are buying ES 350s, LS 460s, 5 Series, or E classes. GS makes too many compromises with too few rewards.
Lexus, get serious.
End Rant.
1. GS lease deals have been okay at best compared to the Germans or Infiniti throughtout its cycle. Its hard to compete when you can get a M35 for $399 a month for the past 4 years and BMW has crazy leases and Lexus doesn't subsidize. The flipside is the GS holds resale and Lexus and dealers are not broke with these questionable luxury sales tactics.
2. GS size. While everyone got bigger (yuck IMO) the GS stayed pretty much the same size. Well we live in a world where every sedan seems to be getting bigger so its hard to not do the same thing and be successful. The GS dimensions inside can be quite couple like. The IRONY to me is the GS interior and its dimensions give it the SPORTIEST size of the bunch inside and out. I don't find ATM dashes in the M34/45 or 5 sporty. I do find them nice though.
3. Styling. I find the GS styling to be great and "okay" and it simply does not stand out like it used to. Blame to 500 copycats or other cars that took GS styling cues. When the 3GS debuted it didn't see so new as the 2GS b/c of the copycats. Now the Jag XJ takes GS cues and its a bigger, newer car.
4. Marketing. 3GS marketing was average at best. The best ads were the ones with the figures 8s in response to Audi. The rest were a complete blah.
5. I still don't understand why Lexus didn't leave the GS 300 as a "value" model like the old BMW 525. BMW used to sell 1500 525s a MONTH!!! The GS 450h is a limited production model. Where is teh GS coupe? Wagon?
6. GS 430/460 has been just okay. Debuts with 300hp which in 2005 was not the big deal it was in 1997. Then the new SAE rating gives it 290. Then the GS 460 comes with 342hp (I wrongly predicited 400). Acceleration is midpack, its no longer fastest in class.
Now I do like your idea to "2IS" the GS. Great idea. The GS used to be the "bad ***" Lexus. Now that goes to the IS and the IS-F.
I can't see Lexus producing anything less BUT a grand slam with the 4GS. They cannot afford another double in this competitive market.
02-14-09, 08:53 AM
#35
Super Moderator
I think the current GS would have done better in terms of sales than it is doing now if there were no Infiniti M35, like it was the case with the previous generation.
The M35 is sportier and bigger(with both passenger & luggage space) than the GS and it did take some sales from the GS, & I don't think you can only blame the better lease deals from Infiniti entirely.
While I don't want the GS to get too big, but they need to have a more efficient design in terms of maximizing internal space/luggage space than the current generation, & they do need to make it drive sportier. Right now, the current GS is not particularly good at anything. With similar size, they do need to differentiate the GS from the ES as much as possible, other than RWD/AWD versus FWD.
1. GS lease deals have been okay at best compared to the Germans or Infiniti throughtout its cycle. Its hard to compete when you can get a M35 for $399 a month for the past 4 years and BMW has crazy leases and Lexus doesn't subsidize. The flipside is the GS holds resale and Lexus and dealers are not broke with these questionable luxury sales tactics.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 02-14-09 at 08:59 AM.
02-14-09, 09:07 AM
#36
1. GS lease deals have been okay at best compared to the Germans or Infiniti throughtout its cycle. Its hard to compete when you can get a M35 for $399 a month for the past 4 years and BMW has crazy leases and Lexus doesn't subsidize. The flipside is the GS holds resale and Lexus and dealers are not broke with these questionable luxury sales tactics.
2. GS size. While everyone got bigger (yuck IMO) the GS stayed pretty much the same size. Well we live in a world where every sedan seems to be getting bigger so its hard to not do the same thing and be successful. The GS dimensions inside can be quite couple like. The IRONY to me is the GS interior and its dimensions give it the SPORTIEST size of the bunch inside and out. I don't find ATM dashes in the M34/45 or 5 sporty. I do find them nice though.
3. Styling. I find the GS styling to be great and "okay" and it simply does not stand out like it used to. Blame to 500 copycats or other cars that took GS styling cues. When the 3GS debuted it didn't see so new as the 2GS b/c of the copycats. Now the Jag XK takes GS cues and its a bigger, newer car.
4. Marketing. 3GS marketing was average at best. The best ads were the ones with the figures 8s in response to Audi. The rest were a complete blah.
5. I still don't understand why Lexus didn't leave the GS 300 as a "value" model like the old BMW 525. BMW used to sell 1500 525s a MONTH!!! The GS 450h is a limited production model. Where is teh GS coupe? Wagon?
6. GS 430/460 has been just okay. Debuts with 300hp which in 2005 was not the big deal it was in 1997. Then the new SAE rating gives it 290. Then the GS 460 comes with 342hp (I wrongly predicited 400). Acceleration is midpack, its no longer fastest in class.
Now I do like your idea to "2IS" the GS. Great idea. The GS used to be the "bad ***" Lexus. Now that goes to the IS and the IS-F.
I can't see Lexus producing anything less BUT a grand slam with the 4GS. They cannot afford another double in this competitive market.
I can't see Lexus producing anything less BUT a grand slam with the 4GS. They cannot afford another double in this competitive market.
The bottom line is that they need to try harder to differentiate the GS from the ES and LS and give people a compelling reason to buy one. It needs to be the ONLY Lexus sedan in the $50K-60Kish range with a sport package that is fun to driver and that incite some sort of flame or passion. The GS really could be a great car just by it's merits- RWD, perfect size, some of the best engines and transmissions in the industry. Right now it doesn't ride or drive significantly different from the ES or LS to most people. The car needs to give the $40-50K shopper a reason to spend a little extra money to get into something that is much better than the ES, and the $55-$65K shopper a reason to get something other than the LS (read: sportier). Right now, the GS is neither.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 02-14-09 at 09:11 AM.
02-14-09, 12:59 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
02-14-09, 01:12 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
That's what made them "Lexus" to begin with.
02-14-09, 02:12 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
fix the rattles
and shape the headliner to make more headroom.
other cars have the sloped roof too, but their headliner is carved out to give an extra inch or two.
the exterior size of the car is big enough, but confusingly, the interior feels smaller than it should be, as if there's too much padding inside.
it would be funny to make a saloon model of the GS, and make it ride bouncy like an old cadillac/buick
and shape the headliner to make more headroom.
other cars have the sloped roof too, but their headliner is carved out to give an extra inch or two.
the exterior size of the car is big enough, but confusingly, the interior feels smaller than it should be, as if there's too much padding inside.
it would be funny to make a saloon model of the GS, and make it ride bouncy like an old cadillac/buick
02-14-09, 06:09 PM
#41
Variations
I always thought that the GS was kind of the redheaded step child of Lexus (well, maybe the SC coupe) based mostly upon their decisions on engines ... more specifically their introductions ... always seemed strange. For instance, debuting w/ the 3.0 engine then bringing the 3.5 a short time later that made many wonder why anyone would be the then current v8 ... which did not get upgraded until a good while later.
In these tough times for auto makers, I think that it might be wise to consolidate & differentiate their variants a bit. For instance, still have the basic v6 but make the v8 the GS-F. The hybrid could be tuned more to fuel economy than performance since that would be the GS-F's arena ...
In these tough times for auto makers, I think that it might be wise to consolidate & differentiate their variants a bit. For instance, still have the basic v6 but make the v8 the GS-F. The hybrid could be tuned more to fuel economy than performance since that would be the GS-F's arena ...
02-14-09, 10:36 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
I always thought that the GS was kind of the redheaded step child of Lexus (well, maybe the SC coupe) based mostly upon their decisions on engines ... more specifically their introductions ... always seemed strange. For instance, debuting w/ the 3.0 engine then bringing the 3.5 a short time later that made many wonder why anyone would be the then current v8 ... which did not get upgraded until a good while later.
In these tough times for auto makers, I think that it might be wise to consolidate & differentiate their variants a bit. For instance, still have the basic v6 but make the v8 the GS-F. The hybrid could be tuned more to fuel economy than performance since that would be the GS-F's arena ...
In these tough times for auto makers, I think that it might be wise to consolidate & differentiate their variants a bit. For instance, still have the basic v6 but make the v8 the GS-F. The hybrid could be tuned more to fuel economy than performance since that would be the GS-F's arena ...
In comparison Infiniti M35/45 has the same engines its entire lifespan and the RL has the same old V-6 with never any other engine choices.
02-14-09, 11:18 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Mostly they just lower the rear seat cushion, that's how it's accomplished. And for back seats that don't get used all that often, it works just fine.
