IS-SV

Agreed, but let's talk about reliability and the need for a factory-backed warranty later.

INHOCJP

Ha, can't bring up the topic of MB reliability in a Lexus forum

rdgdawg

WHAT??? A Subaru????

J/K.... I'd go RX, GLK, Outback, in that order... just me...

rcf8000

You can get leather seats as an option on the GL450. However, they seem about the same as the MBTex seats, to me--nowhere near as nice a leather as Lexus (or even Toyota). Leather is standard on the GL550, but Premium Leather is available as an option, and it is nicer.

mmarshall

Both, however, like their Toyota 4Runner and Land Cruiser cousins, do very well off-road as it is. The 4Runner, at one time, was body-on-frame (essentially a converted Toyota pickup) , but the unibody sequels have been just as good off-road. Most SUV buyers (about 95%, overall, except for the Jeep Wrangler) almost never go off-road anyway. Many standard SUV insurance policies don't allow it.

mmarshall

Yes, that was one of the things I brought up in the review....the fact that the GL would apeal to those who want a fairly large, roomy, safety-oriented, flexible, versatile vehicle, and can afford the $$$$$ for it. I used the LS460 comparison, however, simply to illustrate what you can also get for the GL's pricetag..........one of the finest luxury cars in the world.

I mentioned the GL320 Bluetec and GL550 alternatives to the 450. I did review, at CL member request, an ML320 BlueTec diesel, a few months ago. That is an excellent, very impressive powerplant....but requires the expensive, low-sulfur diesel fuel, which is substantially more expensive than even premium gas. It also requires periodic urea-solution refills for the exhaust. However, some tax credits are available for a diesel-vehicle purchase (they are considered alternate-fuel vehicles, despite the fact that the fuel still comes from petroleum...go figure ) and some jurisdictions, I think, like with hybrids, give them HOV rush-hour privledges.

mmarshall

If Consumer Reports or J.D. Power have reliability data for a vehicle I review, I usually mention it in my reviews, especially C.R., which I consider more reliable. I feel that is something important which could help some potential buyers make up their minds to purchase that vehicle or not. Many people, however, DO purchase M-B products, despite the long string of unreliability many of them have had since the mid-late 1990's. In the last 1-2 years, though, some M-B products have shown some reliability improvment.

mmarshall

A number of upmarket automakers have been doing this, especially German ones. I've noticed with Audis, Mercedes, and Some BMWs that the lower-line cars either get the imitation leather or a lower-grade one that is not as smooth or pleasant in its texture. The Mercedes AMG, Jaguar R, and Audi S/RS lines, for example, seem to have much nicer leather inside then the more bread-and-butter competitors.

That, at one time, was not the case....leather meant leather, except for some top-level Jaguars and Rolls Royce/Beltleys, which are known for fine leather. But, like with a number of other areas in car design, the bean-counters started having more and more influence.

rdgdawg

Mike, off-topic question: I heard CR now accepting advertising dollars from auto manufacturers... any truth (if you know) on this????

mmarshall

I myself could probably afford an upmarket vehicle, even paying cash (I once had an IS300...that's how I joined CL), but, IMO, it's hard to beat Subies for the money, especially the Outback (I myself own one......for my needs, it is perhaps the best vehicle on the market).

The RX, however, as you note, is a real nice vehicle. I can understand your enthusiasm for it. If I was to spend 40K+ on a new car, it would be very high on MY list, too. However, so would the BMW 335i, especially the xi AWD model....that car is a real joy to drive.

mmarshall

Don't know for a fact, but I would highly doubt it. Ralph Nader and Joan Claybrook, who helped make CR what it is today, would ****** a gold brick if that happened. CR prides itself on independence and fairness.

rdgdawg

Agreed but I've come across that three times now... next time (if it happens) I'll forward you the source

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Umm... If I am not mistaken, the current 4Runner is still body-on-frame.

pagemaster

The 4runner is body on frame. Same chassis as the FJ Cruiser and Gx470

IS-SV

That's correct for above and has been the case since inception of each.

The ML/G/R-classes are unibody and are all derived from the ML (known as engineering code W164). The new much smaller GLK is derived from the current C-class of course is unibody construction (known as W204).