OK, I'll Say It, The '09 Acura TL Is As Good Or Better Than The 5, E-Class, A6
03-01-09, 03:40 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
Congratulations on your new TL
In my opinion I too am disappointed in the exterior design of the new TL mainly because they did not go in the direction I was hoping they would but it is still a nice car and one of the top cars in its class. My parents just bought a 08 TL and it is one of the nicest looking sedans I have ever seen, most people agree the 3rd gen is an all around great car and one of the best sedan designs out so expectations and excitement for the 09 TL were extremely and maybe unrealistically high. I was disappointed when I first saw pics of it at first but after seeing some better angles it did start growing on me.
I test drove the 09 TL and I came away impressed and feeling better then I felt before it. Still compared to the 08 it just did not look as good but did look more significant, modern, and was more noticeable. The beak needs to go or be toned down but I have seen pics of them painted or aftermarket grills and they look very nice. The interior although busy was nicely done with high quality materials which were noticeably nicer then most cars I have sat in including the used Lexus IS350 I sat in next which had very noticeable interior wear all over after only 2 years which was very disappointing. Everything interior wise in the 09 TL seemed to be a little nicer and more plush then my parents 08TL and the 08 already has a nice interior. I did not like the location of the 09 NAV screen and the plastic below the rear seat vents was hard and not plush. It drove very well and I could immediately notice the more power and better acceleration and suspension improvements over my parents 08TL although the steering was not as weighted and precise as the 08, it did not seem any slower then my GS430 but I never floored it to compare top ends as I had the salesman in the car.
The new TL generally gets no love here and on many sites and it is understandable to a point as expectations were very high with this car considering the previous one and many including me were disappointed by the exterior but I just don't see it being as bad looking as many seem to say and the more I see them on the road the more I like them. Have to kind of question how some can feel the TL is so ugly and bad looking but feel the 3rd Gen GS, first years LS430, LX470, are not ugly or homely looking either.
As far as the Japanese competition, the Lexus IS is a very nice looking car and a better looking car to me then the 09 TL but it is much smaller with a pathetic joke of a rear seat and feels a bit cramped even up front, interior looks nice but when you actually feel many materials they don't feel very solid or high quality and the 2 year old IS350 I test drove interior had very disappointing wear with silver paint peeling/flaking off from the silver painted plastic, buttons and ***** with paint wearing off, scratches all over the "wood" trim and the leather was heavily worn, ripped, and losing dye prematurely. Gauges were very nice and the IS350 has lots of pickup but handling and ride had the same problem as the GS, stiffer ride without the handling/interaction/confidence to back it up or make up for it. The IS is just way too expensive for what you get. Despite all the negatives I still did like the IS350 and may possibly consider one if I found a great deal but there is no way I would buy it new and pay over 34K for one.
The Lexus GS and ES are much closer in size to the 09 TL then the IS which has less room then the TSX. As for the GS I am sorry but the 3rd Gen Lexus GS is not a good looking car either and on the ugly side especially from the rear but it at least does not have the big TL beak up front. GS should have more interior room for its size and class and the ride and handling are just disappointing and the worst of both worlds. Interior is nicer quality wise then the IS with more room but in some areas feels cheaper and more cost cut then the 2nd Gen GS.
The ES has a nice looking exterior but is a bit plain and could easily be confused with a LS460 from a distance which is not good for the LS460. The interior is a disappointment design and quality of materials wise and you can really tell the difference between the quality of the IS/GS compared to the ES which may look nice in certain areas but feels very cost cut and not nearly as plush as even an IS. The new ES rides stiffer then the older one and it does not suit it well or make it any more sporty, just not as soft as the previous one. All the reliability and quality issues the new GS/ES have been having really concerns me about these vehicles as quality/reliability would really be the only reason aside from price I would chose them over the competition.
As for the Infiniti G37 sedan, to me it is a pretty homely car too. From some angles it looks pretty nice and from others it has that odd ugly plain jelly bean look to it. It looks like a Nissan and in no way looks upscale or expensive. The new Maxima looks much nicer then the G37. The G37 interior design is just too plain and cheap looking and looks straight out of a Nissan and does not appeal to me aside from the purple gauge lighting and the washi aluminum trim. It has the most hp in its class but is not as quick as the IS350 or 335i with less hp and gears which is very disappointing. The VQ is a known gas guzzler and is rough, thrashey, and sounds terrible in the high rev range and the engines/steering/chasis rough courseness received many complaints in recent year long evaluations in Automobile and Car and Driver. When I drove it I was not as impressed as many seem to be with the handling/feel and felt the BMW 3 series still offered a much better overall drive,feel, and ride compromise without the harshness.
In all I have to say I am not really all that impressed or blown away with any of the entry level sport/lux Japanese sedans and none really make me want to go out and get one as none really stands out. I can understand some of the disappointment with the 09 TL but it is still a very nice car and aside from looks mostly improved over the previous generation and you get a hell of alot of car for your money with the TL. Neither the IS or G are really clearly better choices over the TL as they all have their strengths and weaknesses so I don't see any reason to come down on someone for choosing or liking the new TL because in many ways it is nicer then the competition and is better suited to many. The 09 TLs main fault is the big grill/beak and that can be easily/cheaply fixed by either a aftermarket one, spray painting it the body color, or Acura can simply make a design change in a year or two.
Again congratulations on your new TL and don't let all the negativity on car sites spoil your happiness with your car, it only matters what you like and how you feel about the car you chose that best fits your needs. I know Acura makes excellent vehicles from my parents owning 3 which were completely trouble free and all 3 even combined had less issues then my Lexus GS. Although I have never owned a Acura they will be very highly on my list of future purchases just based on how happy my friends and family have been with them.
In my opinion I too am disappointed in the exterior design of the new TL mainly because they did not go in the direction I was hoping they would but it is still a nice car and one of the top cars in its class. My parents just bought a 08 TL and it is one of the nicest looking sedans I have ever seen, most people agree the 3rd gen is an all around great car and one of the best sedan designs out so expectations and excitement for the 09 TL were extremely and maybe unrealistically high. I was disappointed when I first saw pics of it at first but after seeing some better angles it did start growing on me.
I test drove the 09 TL and I came away impressed and feeling better then I felt before it. Still compared to the 08 it just did not look as good but did look more significant, modern, and was more noticeable. The beak needs to go or be toned down but I have seen pics of them painted or aftermarket grills and they look very nice. The interior although busy was nicely done with high quality materials which were noticeably nicer then most cars I have sat in including the used Lexus IS350 I sat in next which had very noticeable interior wear all over after only 2 years which was very disappointing. Everything interior wise in the 09 TL seemed to be a little nicer and more plush then my parents 08TL and the 08 already has a nice interior. I did not like the location of the 09 NAV screen and the plastic below the rear seat vents was hard and not plush. It drove very well and I could immediately notice the more power and better acceleration and suspension improvements over my parents 08TL although the steering was not as weighted and precise as the 08, it did not seem any slower then my GS430 but I never floored it to compare top ends as I had the salesman in the car.
The new TL generally gets no love here and on many sites and it is understandable to a point as expectations were very high with this car considering the previous one and many including me were disappointed by the exterior but I just don't see it being as bad looking as many seem to say and the more I see them on the road the more I like them. Have to kind of question how some can feel the TL is so ugly and bad looking but feel the 3rd Gen GS, first years LS430, LX470, are not ugly or homely looking either.
As far as the Japanese competition, the Lexus IS is a very nice looking car and a better looking car to me then the 09 TL but it is much smaller with a pathetic joke of a rear seat and feels a bit cramped even up front, interior looks nice but when you actually feel many materials they don't feel very solid or high quality and the 2 year old IS350 I test drove interior had very disappointing wear with silver paint peeling/flaking off from the silver painted plastic, buttons and ***** with paint wearing off, scratches all over the "wood" trim and the leather was heavily worn, ripped, and losing dye prematurely. Gauges were very nice and the IS350 has lots of pickup but handling and ride had the same problem as the GS, stiffer ride without the handling/interaction/confidence to back it up or make up for it. The IS is just way too expensive for what you get. Despite all the negatives I still did like the IS350 and may possibly consider one if I found a great deal but there is no way I would buy it new and pay over 34K for one.
The Lexus GS and ES are much closer in size to the 09 TL then the IS which has less room then the TSX. As for the GS I am sorry but the 3rd Gen Lexus GS is not a good looking car either and on the ugly side especially from the rear but it at least does not have the big TL beak up front. GS should have more interior room for its size and class and the ride and handling are just disappointing and the worst of both worlds. Interior is nicer quality wise then the IS with more room but in some areas feels cheaper and more cost cut then the 2nd Gen GS.
The ES has a nice looking exterior but is a bit plain and could easily be confused with a LS460 from a distance which is not good for the LS460. The interior is a disappointment design and quality of materials wise and you can really tell the difference between the quality of the IS/GS compared to the ES which may look nice in certain areas but feels very cost cut and not nearly as plush as even an IS. The new ES rides stiffer then the older one and it does not suit it well or make it any more sporty, just not as soft as the previous one. All the reliability and quality issues the new GS/ES have been having really concerns me about these vehicles as quality/reliability would really be the only reason aside from price I would chose them over the competition.
As for the Infiniti G37 sedan, to me it is a pretty homely car too. From some angles it looks pretty nice and from others it has that odd ugly plain jelly bean look to it. It looks like a Nissan and in no way looks upscale or expensive. The new Maxima looks much nicer then the G37. The G37 interior design is just too plain and cheap looking and looks straight out of a Nissan and does not appeal to me aside from the purple gauge lighting and the washi aluminum trim. It has the most hp in its class but is not as quick as the IS350 or 335i with less hp and gears which is very disappointing. The VQ is a known gas guzzler and is rough, thrashey, and sounds terrible in the high rev range and the engines/steering/chasis rough courseness received many complaints in recent year long evaluations in Automobile and Car and Driver. When I drove it I was not as impressed as many seem to be with the handling/feel and felt the BMW 3 series still offered a much better overall drive,feel, and ride compromise without the harshness.
In all I have to say I am not really all that impressed or blown away with any of the entry level sport/lux Japanese sedans and none really make me want to go out and get one as none really stands out. I can understand some of the disappointment with the 09 TL but it is still a very nice car and aside from looks mostly improved over the previous generation and you get a hell of alot of car for your money with the TL. Neither the IS or G are really clearly better choices over the TL as they all have their strengths and weaknesses so I don't see any reason to come down on someone for choosing or liking the new TL because in many ways it is nicer then the competition and is better suited to many. The 09 TLs main fault is the big grill/beak and that can be easily/cheaply fixed by either a aftermarket one, spray painting it the body color, or Acura can simply make a design change in a year or two.
Again congratulations on your new TL and don't let all the negativity on car sites spoil your happiness with your car, it only matters what you like and how you feel about the car you chose that best fits your needs. I know Acura makes excellent vehicles from my parents owning 3 which were completely trouble free and all 3 even combined had less issues then my Lexus GS. Although I have never owned a Acura they will be very highly on my list of future purchases just based on how happy my friends and family have been with them.
03-01-09, 06:11 PM
#48
Lexus Champion
I drove the new 09 TL when it first came out and think that most of the bashing that goes on here regarding it is just bandwagon mentality... it's not a pretty car by most peoples' standards so that automatically gets it off on the wrong foot with most people.
When I drove it I didn't find the performance to be particularly inspiring and I didn't find the comfort to be particularly impressive. But neither was bad, either... and the tech was pretty decent.
Overall it's a good car for the money that doesn't excel at anything but doesn't fail at anything either except maybe styling depending on your preference.
But it also is not at all on par with the E/5/A6, either in terms of driving experience. Those cars just drive like a vault compared to the TL... they feel much more substantial, and their ride/handling/performance is less compromised, too. Then again their price tags are way higher, too.
For Acura TL type money I'd probably go with the Cadillac CTS.
When I drove it I didn't find the performance to be particularly inspiring and I didn't find the comfort to be particularly impressive. But neither was bad, either... and the tech was pretty decent.
Overall it's a good car for the money that doesn't excel at anything but doesn't fail at anything either except maybe styling depending on your preference.
But it also is not at all on par with the E/5/A6, either in terms of driving experience. Those cars just drive like a vault compared to the TL... they feel much more substantial, and their ride/handling/performance is less compromised, too. Then again their price tags are way higher, too.
For Acura TL type money I'd probably go with the Cadillac CTS.
03-01-09, 06:13 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
"The ES has a nice looking exterior but is a bit plain and could easily be confused with a LS460 from a distance which is not good for the LS460."
It's funny that you said this, because a couple of times I thought I was looking at a LS when in fact it was a ES. And I thought it was just me
It's funny that you said this, because a couple of times I thought I was looking at a LS when in fact it was a ES. And I thought it was just me
03-01-09, 07:07 PM
#50
I drove the new 09 TL when it first came out and think that most of the bashing that goes on here regarding it is just bandwagon mentality... it's not a pretty car by most peoples' standards so that automatically gets it off on the wrong foot with most people.
When I drove it I didn't find the performance to be particularly inspiring and I didn't find the comfort to be particularly impressive. But neither was bad, either... and the tech was pretty decent.
Overall it's a good car for the money that doesn't excel at anything but doesn't fail at anything either except maybe styling depending on your preference.
But it also is not at all on par with the E/5/A6, either in terms of driving experience. Those cars just drive like a vault compared to the TL... they feel much more substantial, and their ride/handling/performance is less compromised, too. Then again their price tags are way higher, too.
For Acura TL type money I'd probably go with the Cadillac CTS.
When I drove it I didn't find the performance to be particularly inspiring and I didn't find the comfort to be particularly impressive. But neither was bad, either... and the tech was pretty decent.
Overall it's a good car for the money that doesn't excel at anything but doesn't fail at anything either except maybe styling depending on your preference.
But it also is not at all on par with the E/5/A6, either in terms of driving experience. Those cars just drive like a vault compared to the TL... they feel much more substantial, and their ride/handling/performance is less compromised, too. Then again their price tags are way higher, too.
For Acura TL type money I'd probably go with the Cadillac CTS.
03-02-09, 12:08 AM
#51
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I agree with you 100% People need to drive an RL to really see what a special car it is. Sit in it, feel the interior, drive it, and feel how structurally solid it is. It is a car that, for the money, (50k by the way) is worth every penny and more. It goes down the road unlike any other car built today. Structural solidity so solid it can't be described. It's built like a tank and drives like nothing else in it's class. Its interior quality and craftsmanship are above ANYTHING in its class. Anybody that dissagrees has obviously never driven one. I'm truly sadenned that the car never really caught on with the enthusiast crowd. It is truly beyond reproach. IMO, the exterior styling is absolutely beautiful, one of the best looking sedans today. It is the last of the classic Acuras.
The TL, I'm sure, is a very, very fine driving automobile, as the OP says. Maybe even "best in calss", but I'm sorry, the exterior styling is so poor, it doesn't make up for it. When looking at a new car purchase, Exterior styling is "numero uno" in my book, followed by reliability, and then performance. Sorry, Acura, not this time.
The TL, I'm sure, is a very, very fine driving automobile, as the OP says. Maybe even "best in calss", but I'm sorry, the exterior styling is so poor, it doesn't make up for it. When looking at a new car purchase, Exterior styling is "numero uno" in my book, followed by reliability, and then performance. Sorry, Acura, not this time.
you must be out of your mind. RL is worth about 35k, no more no less. sure it has a great looking interior but the rest of the car is boring and lackluster. park it next to accord and accord has more presence. park it next to genesis, and you would think genesis would cost 20k more than RL.
and about driving.. which 50k car doesn't drive well? name one. every cars drive well in this segment. gs460, E, 5, A6 and etc. all of them are great cars. but seriously RL has nothing on any of those cars i've mentioned. go drive genesis, and genesis kills RL in every category.
by the way, i've driven RL for about 2 months. my best friend let me drive it while he was vacationing in Korea. it's a good car but it's better suited to be an accord rather than acura's flagship.
basically it's a disgrace and a failed attempt by acura.
03-02-09, 12:51 AM
#54
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well it's a disgrace because LEGEND used to be a great car. one of my favorite 90's car of all time.
i just can't figure out acura. it's been 15 years and they still get their flagship right.
i just can't figure out acura. it's been 15 years and they still get their flagship right.
03-02-09, 03:43 AM
#55
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As a less-than-satisfied previous owner of 2nd gen Acura TL, I never want to buy another Acura TL again. Sure, the car is a very good if not superb value, but leather materials are not as durable as Lexus + is not as rattle-proof as Lexus. The current gen's funky design adds to my avoidance of TL.
03-02-09, 05:43 AM
#56
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As a less-than-satisfied previous owner of 2nd gen Acura TL, I never want to buy another Acura TL again. Sure, the car is a very good if not superb value, but leather materials are not as durable as Lexus + is not as rattle-proof as Lexus. The current gen's funky design adds to my avoidance of TL.
03-02-09, 05:56 AM
#57
Lexus Champion
I've ordered it. I'll be picking it up in about a month and a half when my lease on my ES350 is up.
As to the appearance, yes, it's polarizing but I'd suggest you see one in person before you make your mind up. Pictures just don't do it justice. In person it's purposeful and very masculine looking. And while I know that such things are very subjective, you really have to see it to arrive at a decision about it's looks.
The other thing that I think needs to be mentioned is that the #1 objective of a car manufacturer is to get it's vehicles noticed. Do you recall the hue and cry that Chris Bangle's design aesthetic were met with? People were positively outraged and appalled. And I think we all know how that turned out. BMW's sales more than doubled under his design stewardship. And Cadillac with the CTS? Same thing. That one car essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevannt car company to buyers under 80 years old.
As to the appearance, yes, it's polarizing but I'd suggest you see one in person before you make your mind up. Pictures just don't do it justice. In person it's purposeful and very masculine looking. And while I know that such things are very subjective, you really have to see it to arrive at a decision about it's looks.
The other thing that I think needs to be mentioned is that the #1 objective of a car manufacturer is to get it's vehicles noticed. Do you recall the hue and cry that Chris Bangle's design aesthetic were met with? People were positively outraged and appalled. And I think we all know how that turned out. BMW's sales more than doubled under his design stewardship. And Cadillac with the CTS? Same thing. That one car essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevannt car company to buyers under 80 years old.
03-02-09, 05:59 AM
#58
Lexus Champion
With all due respect, I think you owe it to yourself to sit in and drive the new 4G TL. It's a whole different vehicle from the one you describe. I was not a great fan of the 2G and even 3G TL's. I think this current generation breaks new ground for Acura and certainly for the TL. I've owned 3 Lexus' (the '90 LS, '02 ES and '07 ES) and whikle I've been quite satisfied with each, their driving dynamics were (to be charitable) more than a bit bland. I wanted something a bit more soul stirring this time around. But I did not want to give up the luxury and features to be found in a Lexus. I researched the 5 series, E-Class and A6 and then the TL and decided that the TL was every bit as good a car as those iconic mid-sized sports sedans at thousands less. It has all the power one could ever want, it's built like a tank, it handles like it's on rails and it has interior tech features the likes of which I've never seen before. All in a package which should continue Acura's tradition of utterly bullet proof reliability and safety. Oh, and the leather is superb both in feel and smell. Like I said, when you have a chance, pop over to your local Acura dealership and see what I mean.
03-02-09, 06:16 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Sorry if I was unclear in my post....thanks for raising the question. 
I did like the new TL interior more than that of the new TSX.....I said so in the review. But I still think it was somewhat of a letdown from the 2008 TL. For one thing, wood-tone trim is no longer available for an added touch of warmth (same problem with the new TSX).
Now, the RL.............THERE's an interior. Good-looking, and tank-solid materials.
I did like the new TL interior more than that of the new TSX.....I said so in the review. But I still think it was somewhat of a letdown from the 2008 TL. For one thing, wood-tone trim is no longer available for an added touch of warmth (same problem with the new TSX).Now, the RL.............THERE's an interior. Good-looking, and tank-solid materials.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-02-09 at 06:24 AM.
03-02-09, 06:34 AM
#60
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Sorry if I was unclear in my post....thanks for raising the question. I did like the new TL interior more than that of the new TSX.....I said so in the review. But I still think it was somewhat of a letdown from the 2008 TL. For one thing, wood-tone trim is no longer available for an added touch of warmth (same problem with the new TSX).
Now, the RL.............THERE's an interior. Good-looking, and tank-solid materials.
I did like the new TL interior more than that of the new TSX.....I said so in the review. But I still think it was somewhat of a letdown from the 2008 TL. For one thing, wood-tone trim is no longer available for an added touch of warmth (same problem with the new TSX).Now, the RL.............THERE's an interior. Good-looking, and tank-solid materials.