2010 Lexus RX 450h Makes 30 MPG Combined
03-06-09, 02:47 PM
#33
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03-07-09, 10:50 AM
#34
Correct me if I'm wrong, but vehicles destined for NA have much higher crash standard requirements than the EU or Asia. Over the years the standards have increased dramatically. The manufacturers are under a tight margin to maximize safety, minimize cost of safety, and maximizing profit. It gets harder because of increasing requirements of crash safety, the competition attempting to maximize as well, and the increasing cost of materials like aluminum.
With increasing use of computer modelling and modern high strength steels it's actually cheaper to design in safety these days, rather than just add weight.
03-07-09, 03:30 PM
#35
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I find this story hard to believe. Isn't the system mostly identical to the GS450h or did they update the components?
03-08-09, 01:44 PM
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the new rx looks like an is250 that sucked up too much air and turned into a tank! but hey, those are awesome mpg numbers... 
03-08-09, 04:06 PM
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Lexus is so uncompetitive here in Europe it isn't even funny anymore. Lexus has continually refused to adapt to the European market. They're not giving the European consumer what they want. Where are the diesels? Smaller petrol engines? Different trim? More importantly, where is the brand prestige? If you're going to shell out money for a luxury brand, you want something with a name, right? Well, here in Europe that is the case. Lexus vehicles are priced pretty highly, in some cases even more expensive than their German competition. Wrong move.
Lexus is selling American-style luxury in Europe and it's not working and Lexus just doesn't get it. Inefficient, big engines are not in demand here, even in luxury vehicles. Smaller gasoline and diesel engines are. People buy luxury cars here for personal gratification in the sense that they've bought a _______ (insert premium brand here). Performance is not really an issue, especially when those smaller gasoline or diesel engines sold here deliver performance which Europeans consider more than adequate but the typical brain-dead [or maybe I should say "narrow minded"] American consumer snobs at, just because Car and Driver told them that 0-60 in seven seconds is "pathetic".
Hybrids are considered a gimmick here in Europe. Hot air. Why buy a hybrid when you can purchase an efficient diesel from any premium brand (except Cadillac and Lexus) in different trim and so forth? Every roadtest here will tell you that a hybrid is best used in the city, but in mixed driving, especially on European roads, mileage suffers compared to a diesel. Let's not forget that the Germans also sell smaller diesel engines in their home turf that are more efficient than the diesels they sell in the US. Under the ML320 CDI for example is an ML280 CDI which gets better gas mileage than the ML320 CDI, naturally.
Lexus are also at the bottom of the list in terms of resale value. You can buy a Lexus, but getting rid of it later is going to be extremely difficult. Add to that a low dealer network and you're all set to fail.
The European market is more difficult to crack than the American market. That's literally a fact. Look at Hyundai for example, which is now successfully selling the Genesis in the US. This would never be possible in Europe where you have the established European brands that have everything a luxury brand should have (in the eyes of the Europeans): brand prestige (earned through history, heritage, motorsport involvement, innovation etc.). Lexus doesn't have this and Hyundai either. They can offer a well-equipped car for an alluring price and it will only speak to an extremely small percentage of the market. Europeans and North Americans see a luxury brand from different viewpoints. Lexus worked in the US, but it isn't gaining much ground in Europe and hybrids are not really the way to attack the European luxury market. Smaller gasoline engines and diesels are.
03-08-09, 04:50 PM
#39
To be honest, it's the European that need to "adapt" the other alternative energy instead of the other way around. Say whatever you want but hybrid has way more potential then diesel, just look at the RX450h compares to the BMW, VW and MB diesel counterparts. I would like to see who is going to "adapt" who 20 years later when hybrids are getting twice of the FE of the comparable diesels due to the advancement in the battery technology...
03-08-09, 05:20 PM
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Yeah whatever...
To be honest, it's the European that need to "adapt" the other alternative energy instead of the other way around. Say whatever you want but hybrid has way more potential then diesel, just look at the RX450h compares to the BMW, VW and MB diesel counterparts. I would like to see who is going to "adapt" who 20 years later when hybrids are getting twice of the FE of the comparable diesels due to the advancement in the battery technology...
To be honest, it's the European that need to "adapt" the other alternative energy instead of the other way around. Say whatever you want but hybrid has way more potential then diesel, just look at the RX450h compares to the BMW, VW and MB diesel counterparts. I would like to see who is going to "adapt" who 20 years later when hybrids are getting twice of the FE of the comparable diesels due to the advancement in the battery technology...
03-08-09, 06:59 PM
#41
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Um, no.
Lexus is so uncompetitive here in Europe it isn't even funny anymore. Lexus has continually refused to adapt to the European market. They're not giving the European consumer what they want. Where are the diesels? Smaller petrol engines? Different trim? More importantly, where is the brand prestige? If you're going to shell out money for a luxury brand, you want something with a name, right? Well, here in Europe that is the case. Lexus vehicles are priced pretty highly, in some cases even more expensive than their German competition. Wrong move.
Lexus is selling American-style luxury in Europe and it's not working and Lexus just doesn't get it. Inefficient, big engines are not in demand here, even in luxury vehicles. Smaller gasoline and diesel engines are. People buy luxury cars here for personal gratification in the sense that they've bought a _______ (insert premium brand here). Performance is not really an issue, especially when those smaller gasoline or diesel engines sold here deliver performance which Europeans consider more than adequate but the typical brain-dead [or maybe I should say "narrow minded"] American consumer snobs at, just because Car and Driver told them that 0-60 in seven seconds is "pathetic".
Hybrids are considered a gimmick here in Europe. Hot air. Why buy a hybrid when you can purchase an efficient diesel from any premium brand (except Cadillac and Lexus) in different trim and so forth? Every roadtest here will tell you that a hybrid is best used in the city, but in mixed driving, especially on European roads, mileage suffers compared to a diesel. Let's not forget that the Germans also sell smaller diesel engines in their home turf that are more efficient than the diesels they sell in the US. Under the ML320 CDI for example is an ML280 CDI which gets better gas mileage than the ML320 CDI, naturally.
Lexus are also at the bottom of the list in terms of resale value. You can buy a Lexus, but getting rid of it later is going to be extremely difficult. Add to that a low dealer network and you're all set to fail.
The European market is more difficult to crack than the American market. That's literally a fact. Look at Hyundai for example, which is now successfully selling the Genesis in the US. This would never be possible in Europe where you have the established European brands that have everything a luxury brand should have (in the eyes of the Europeans): brand prestige (earned through history, heritage, motorsport involvement, innovation etc.). Lexus doesn't have this and Hyundai either. They can offer a well-equipped car for an alluring price and it will only speak to an extremely small percentage of the market. Europeans and North Americans see a luxury brand from different viewpoints. Lexus worked in the US, but it isn't gaining much ground in Europe and hybrids are not really the way to attack the European luxury market. Smaller gasoline engines and diesels are.
Lexus is so uncompetitive here in Europe it isn't even funny anymore. Lexus has continually refused to adapt to the European market. They're not giving the European consumer what they want. Where are the diesels? Smaller petrol engines? Different trim? More importantly, where is the brand prestige? If you're going to shell out money for a luxury brand, you want something with a name, right? Well, here in Europe that is the case. Lexus vehicles are priced pretty highly, in some cases even more expensive than their German competition. Wrong move.
Lexus is selling American-style luxury in Europe and it's not working and Lexus just doesn't get it. Inefficient, big engines are not in demand here, even in luxury vehicles. Smaller gasoline and diesel engines are. People buy luxury cars here for personal gratification in the sense that they've bought a _______ (insert premium brand here). Performance is not really an issue, especially when those smaller gasoline or diesel engines sold here deliver performance which Europeans consider more than adequate but the typical brain-dead [or maybe I should say "narrow minded"] American consumer snobs at, just because Car and Driver told them that 0-60 in seven seconds is "pathetic".
Hybrids are considered a gimmick here in Europe. Hot air. Why buy a hybrid when you can purchase an efficient diesel from any premium brand (except Cadillac and Lexus) in different trim and so forth? Every roadtest here will tell you that a hybrid is best used in the city, but in mixed driving, especially on European roads, mileage suffers compared to a diesel. Let's not forget that the Germans also sell smaller diesel engines in their home turf that are more efficient than the diesels they sell in the US. Under the ML320 CDI for example is an ML280 CDI which gets better gas mileage than the ML320 CDI, naturally.
Lexus are also at the bottom of the list in terms of resale value. You can buy a Lexus, but getting rid of it later is going to be extremely difficult. Add to that a low dealer network and you're all set to fail.
The European market is more difficult to crack than the American market. That's literally a fact. Look at Hyundai for example, which is now successfully selling the Genesis in the US. This would never be possible in Europe where you have the established European brands that have everything a luxury brand should have (in the eyes of the Europeans): brand prestige (earned through history, heritage, motorsport involvement, innovation etc.). Lexus doesn't have this and Hyundai either. They can offer a well-equipped car for an alluring price and it will only speak to an extremely small percentage of the market. Europeans and North Americans see a luxury brand from different viewpoints. Lexus worked in the US, but it isn't gaining much ground in Europe and hybrids are not really the way to attack the European luxury market. Smaller gasoline engines and diesels are.
I'm from europe so don't give me that B.S. Problem for Lexus is europe is not enough lower end fuel efficient models. On the high end- LS460 sales have gone up 300% compared to LS430. A 300 horsepower 30-35mpg hybrid in every category would give europe to Lexus.
and I don't know anyone who thinks hybrids are gimmicks. those who do probably also believe women belong in the kitchen and washing room.
03-09-09, 09:56 AM
#43
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Yeah whatever...
To be honest, it's the European that need to "adapt" the other alternative energy instead of the other way around. Say whatever you want but hybrid has way more potential then diesel, just look at the RX450h compares to the BMW, VW and MB diesel counterparts. I would like to see who is going to "adapt" who 20 years later when hybrids are getting twice of the FE of the comparable diesels due to the advancement in the battery technology...
To be honest, it's the European that need to "adapt" the other alternative energy instead of the other way around. Say whatever you want but hybrid has way more potential then diesel, just look at the RX450h compares to the BMW, VW and MB diesel counterparts. I would like to see who is going to "adapt" who 20 years later when hybrids are getting twice of the FE of the comparable diesels due to the advancement in the battery technology...
Also, the RX450h is the newest car here. No doubt it will be the most advanced. People seem to forget that.
Diesel technology is also still improving and still has a lot of potential. What really would be the ultimate combination would be the fusion of an efficient and highly clean diesel engine with an electric motor. The efficiency of both these can be combined to produce even greater fuel-efficiency.
Now, back to what I said before. Lexus has to adapt to the European market. Why should the Europeans adapt to Lexus? There are products sold here by other brands that give the European consumer what they want. Lexus is playing in a different world here. They are not in the US, the game is different here.
03-09-09, 10:05 AM
#44
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Where are you from?
Correct.
And what are they doing about it?
Nothing. The IS220d was a step in the right direction, the LS600h wasn't. Still, the IS220d is a knee-jerk-reaction and if I may say this, a relatively poorly executed car (by Lexus standards).
Yes, those are sales in Russia and the UK and the Lexus marketing department immediately classifies this as "Europe", meaning "all of Europe". Brilliant.
I find it hard to believe that "you're from Europe" with comments like this. My time in Europe has taught me that the vast majority of people do not buy luxury cars based on horsepower and performance but based on running costs and fuel economy followed by other factors.
A 300 horsepower sedan will still be heavily taxed in terms of horsepower output and probably engine capacity. These taxes are relatively everywhere in Europe, something I would expect a European, such as yourself, to be aware of.
Another thing, I find Europeans to be realistic and sensible in their car purchases and not as wasteful as us Americans. Why should I buy a 300 horsepower luxury sedan when I am just going to use it to commute from home to work? I may as well select the 150 horsepower version, get better fuel economy, have something relatively quick and fun and still enjoy my car to the fullest because of other features.
How old are you by the way? You sound like an immature kid, no offense.
Many people do, including many renowned automotive journals that disagree with theway Lexus is using and marketing them.
Please don't tell me you're going to insult these publications just because they criticize a Toyota / Lexus product.
And what are they doing about it?
Nothing. The IS220d was a step in the right direction, the LS600h wasn't. Still, the IS220d is a knee-jerk-reaction and if I may say this, a relatively poorly executed car (by Lexus standards).
Yes, those are sales in Russia and the UK and the Lexus marketing department immediately classifies this as "Europe", meaning "all of Europe". Brilliant.
A 300 horsepower sedan will still be heavily taxed in terms of horsepower output and probably engine capacity. These taxes are relatively everywhere in Europe, something I would expect a European, such as yourself, to be aware of.
Another thing, I find Europeans to be realistic and sensible in their car purchases and not as wasteful as us Americans. Why should I buy a 300 horsepower luxury sedan when I am just going to use it to commute from home to work? I may as well select the 150 horsepower version, get better fuel economy, have something relatively quick and fun and still enjoy my car to the fullest because of other features.
How old are you by the way? You sound like an immature kid, no offense.
Please don't tell me you're going to insult these publications just because they criticize a Toyota / Lexus product.
03-09-09, 12:57 PM
#45
Show me that 5% of the "crossovers" mentioned above have actually gone off-roading then I'll buy your reasoning, otherwise that's a moot statement.
By the way, I was talking about the US market don't don't give me that crap about "half of the Europeans use those for off-roading". Not interested.
The efficiency of both these can be combined to produce even greater fuel-efficiency.
Now, back to what I said before. Lexus has to adapt to the European market. Why should the Europeans adapt to Lexus? There are products sold here by other brands that give the European consumer what they want. Lexus is playing in a different world here. They are not in the US, the game is different here.
Now, back to what I said before. Lexus has to adapt to the European market. Why should the Europeans adapt to Lexus? There are products sold here by other brands that give the European consumer what they want. Lexus is playing in a different world here. They are not in the US, the game is different here.
By the way, nobody has to adapt nothing if they are not willing to. I would just like to see when that day comes that hybrids totally trump diesels in the FE arena, whether or not those Europeans are going to "adapt".
Say whatever you want about the Europeans but they are just as cocky, ignorant and hard headed as the Americans, if not more. Since their own auto companies are lacking in the hybrid technology then that must be no good so why get on the bandwagon while we have our old and reliable diesels. Yeah, that's the same attitude the Americans had 30 years ago toward the Japanese econoboxes, look where that got them...
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 03-09-09 at 01:02 PM.