top gear: m3 vs is-f
#31
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E90/E92 M3 is a faster and quicker car around any track vs IS-F - with enough margin that anyone who's driven around a track would know it. I've driven E90 M3 6MT and E46 SMG at Limerock on a same day and on that day there were two IS-F's running around. IS-F were slower than E46 on that day at Limerock and E90 was WAY - we are talking 5 seconds on a 1.5mile course - ahead of both E46 and IS-F.
Now if someone likes/dislikes styling/iDrive/fake tips/etc, those are all subjective where people can argue until cows come home it will never end. But as far as being a faster/quicker car, you are what your lap times says you are. And for people who will surely bring up "but you don't know who was driving", C&D or Motortrend did comparison between some 20 cars at VIR grand course and if I remember right IS-F was slower by something like 9 seconds behind M3 and SLOWER than BMW 135i. 1 or 2 seconds, you can argue hey they didn't know how to drive slushbox or that mag is always biased against Lexus etc etc, 9 second gap is beyond that.
Now if someone likes/dislikes styling/iDrive/fake tips/etc, those are all subjective where people can argue until cows come home it will never end. But as far as being a faster/quicker car, you are what your lap times says you are. And for people who will surely bring up "but you don't know who was driving", C&D or Motortrend did comparison between some 20 cars at VIR grand course and if I remember right IS-F was slower by something like 9 seconds behind M3 and SLOWER than BMW 135i. 1 or 2 seconds, you can argue hey they didn't know how to drive slushbox or that mag is always biased against Lexus etc etc, 9 second gap is beyond that.
#32
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (12)
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The IS-F is a bit slower than an E46m3 around a track...With that being said..its not as fast as an E92 that's for sure..
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
The E92 M3 is not even engineered minus a few facial similarities as E92 3 series.
Who loves plows? I know IS-F owners do![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/3269974489_f63a677715_b.jpg)
ahh much better
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/3270063519_18aafc97a6_b.jpg)
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3273278505_35d290ddf0_b.jpg)
Whoops didn't realize that the ISF warped into an E92 M3
Just some pics a buddy an I shot at SOW
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
The E92 M3 is not even engineered minus a few facial similarities as E92 3 series.
Who loves plows? I know IS-F owners do
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/3269974489_f63a677715_b.jpg)
ahh much better
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/3270063519_18aafc97a6_b.jpg)
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3273278505_35d290ddf0_b.jpg)
Whoops didn't realize that the ISF warped into an E92 M3
Just some pics a buddy an I shot at SOW
Last edited by lexusscturbo; 03-08-09 at 08:53 AM.
#33
Lexus Test Driver
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E90/E92 M3 is a faster and quicker car around any track vs IS-F - with enough margin that anyone who's driven around a track would know it. I've driven E90 M3 6MT and E46 SMG at Limerock on a same day and on that day there were two IS-F's running around. IS-F were slower than E46 on that day at Limerock and E90 was WAY - we are talking 5 seconds on a 1.5mile course - ahead of both E46 and IS-F.
Now if someone likes/dislikes styling/iDrive/fake tips/etc, those are all subjective where people can argue until cows come home it will never end. But as far as being a faster/quicker car, you are what your lap times says you are. And for people who will surely bring up "but you don't know who was driving", C&D or Motortrend did comparison between some 20 cars at VIR grand course and if I remember right IS-F was slower by something like 9 seconds behind M3 and SLOWER than BMW 135i. 1 or 2 seconds, you can argue hey they didn't know how to drive slushbox or that mag is always biased against Lexus etc etc, 9 second gap is beyond that.
Now if someone likes/dislikes styling/iDrive/fake tips/etc, those are all subjective where people can argue until cows come home it will never end. But as far as being a faster/quicker car, you are what your lap times says you are. And for people who will surely bring up "but you don't know who was driving", C&D or Motortrend did comparison between some 20 cars at VIR grand course and if I remember right IS-F was slower by something like 9 seconds behind M3 and SLOWER than BMW 135i. 1 or 2 seconds, you can argue hey they didn't know how to drive slushbox or that mag is always biased against Lexus etc etc, 9 second gap is beyond that.
The IS-F is a bit slower than an E46m3 around a track...With that being said..its not as fast as an E92 that's for sure..
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
A reworked IS? You can't be serious? The IS-F has absolutely nothng in common with the IS and is a completely different car from suspension, brakes, F1 composition...........I would like to see the result of a "reworked" IS350..........it most definitely would not resemble an IS-F
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Go ahead and put bolt-ons on an IS and meet me and my F at the track and we will see how close of a race that will be
![Uhh...](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/1387914497.gif)
Last edited by 8speed; 03-08-09 at 11:04 AM.
#35
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
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A reworked IS? You can't be serious? The IS-F has absolutely nothng in common with the IS and is a completely different car from suspension, brakes, F1 composition...........I would like to see the result of a "reworked" IS350..........it most definitely would not resemble an IS-F![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Few Lexus engineers, on their spare own time, basically took a stock 2IS, reworked it, gave it a different suspension, V8 engine, and brakes. It was purely a research project and wasn't even funded by Lexus from the beginning. However, since their work is so good, corporate Lexus then decided the car is ready and suitable for prime time, thus the birth of the IS F.
M3 and C63 on the other hand, were completely engineered from the beginning of the process of the regular 3-series and C-class.
With that being said, for what it is, the IS F is an AMAZING car and I wouldn't mind to own one someday, as matter of fact, since it is selling at well below invoice, I might trade in for one if the price is right.
As for IS350 vs. IS F on the track, I kind of agree with the poster who said on a short track, an IS350 with brakes and suspension upgrade can hang around with the IS F. My tracking experience is limited to the SOW and California speedway's road track. As far as SOW (many corners and very very short front straightaway) goes, IS F's higher power is going to have limited factor or no factor at all so I can see it being a drivers' race between an upgraded IS350 and a stock IS F.
#36
Lexus Fanatic
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Theres always something i've never quite understood when ppl start comparing the M3 to the F... How many years has BMW been working on/refining the M3 cars? How many years has Toyota had a F? For a first attempt the F really isn't so bad, in fact its pretty damm good.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
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As for IS350 vs. IS F on the track, I kind of agree with the poster who said on a short track, an IS350 with brakes and suspension upgrade can hang around with the IS F. My tracking experience is limited to the SOW and California speedway's road track. As far as SOW (many corners and very very short front straightaway) goes, IS F's higher power is going to have limited factor or no factor at all so I can see it being a drivers' race between an upgraded IS350 and a stock IS F.
With a suspension upgrade, the 350 might (?) keep up with an IS-F. The IS-F's underpinnings are so firm that I noticed it tended to bounce up and down like a porpoise on frost heaves and sharp bumps, sometimes tossing the car off course a little.
#40
Lexus Test Driver
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As much as I like the IS F (which I like it A LOT) I have to disagree.
Few Lexus engineers, on their spare own time, basically took a stock 2IS, reworked it, gave it a different suspension, V8 engine, and brakes. It was purely a research project and wasn't even funded by Lexus from the beginning. However, since their work is so good, corporate Lexus then decided the car is ready and suitable for prime time, thus the birth of the IS F.
M3 and C63 on the other hand, were completely engineered from the beginning of the process of the regular 3-series and C-class.
With that being said, for what it is, the IS F is an AMAZING car and I wouldn't mind to own one someday, as matter of fact, since it is selling at well below invoice, I might trade in for one if the price is right.
.
Few Lexus engineers, on their spare own time, basically took a stock 2IS, reworked it, gave it a different suspension, V8 engine, and brakes. It was purely a research project and wasn't even funded by Lexus from the beginning. However, since their work is so good, corporate Lexus then decided the car is ready and suitable for prime time, thus the birth of the IS F.
M3 and C63 on the other hand, were completely engineered from the beginning of the process of the regular 3-series and C-class.
With that being said, for what it is, the IS F is an AMAZING car and I wouldn't mind to own one someday, as matter of fact, since it is selling at well below invoice, I might trade in for one if the price is right.
.
C63 is nothing more than a C class with the largest engine AMG could possibly fit in the engine bay. How much engineering and R & D was involved with that?
And let me guess, you don't own either of the cars we have been discussing at length
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
![Wink](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#41
Lexus Test Driver
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I'm not sure about track figures, and won't try and predict them, but based on my admittedly limited review of both the IS350 and IS-F on the street, the IS-F's torque felt substantially stronger, especially starting in the 3600-4000 RPM range, where, unlike the 350, it comes on like a rocket all at once. It also felt, to me, at least, like it had sustantially quicker steering.....at the cost of a harsher suspension, of course.
With a suspension upgrade, the 350 might (?) keep up with an IS-F. The IS-F's underpinnings are so firm that I noticed it tended to bounce up and down like a porpoise on frost heaves and sharp bumps, sometimes tossing the car off course a little.
With a suspension upgrade, the 350 might (?) keep up with an IS-F. The IS-F's underpinnings are so firm that I noticed it tended to bounce up and down like a porpoise on frost heaves and sharp bumps, sometimes tossing the car off course a little.
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'm glad we can debate in here without getting off topic and flaming eachother. I appreciate everyones opinion and passion. Good stuff
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#42
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (2)
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Like i said before, at least BMW thought of the Lexus as somewhat of a threat, cars like Volvo R models which have been around for a while, and are damn good cars, never get mentioned in the same sentence and very few people eve know about them. Like others have said, great first time event.
#43
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although is-f is lexus first attempt in this segment, but given the racing history of lexus, and cars they made like supra, it's clear that they are capable. i have always said that for their "first" attempt on the is-f, i think they did a fantastic job already, really head to head with the m3 and c63. and like some said, most importantly, is bmw and mb they ARE taking the is-f seriously
#44
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
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The IS-F is a bit slower than an E46m3 around a track...With that being said..its not as fast as an E92 that's for sure..
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
The E92 M3 is not even engineered minus a few facial similarities as E92 3 series.
Who loves plows? I know IS-F owners do![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/3269974489_f63a677715_b.jpg)
ahh much better
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/3270063519_18aafc97a6_b.jpg)
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3273278505_35d290ddf0_b.jpg)
Whoops didn't realize that the ISF warped into an E92 M3
Just some pics a buddy an I shot at SOW
An IS-F is not even a completly done up car. Its an IS2/350 that's been reworked.
You give a IS350 a Limited Slip- Just some boltons (I/H/E); coilovers; Sway Bars; and a rear STB (The rear crumple zones on a 2IS aren't very stiff)...
And on a Medium-Short sized track vs an ISF its going to be one close race
The E92 M3 is not even engineered minus a few facial similarities as E92 3 series.
Who loves plows? I know IS-F owners do
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1026/3269974489_f63a677715_b.jpg)
ahh much better
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/3270063519_18aafc97a6_b.jpg)
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3273278505_35d290ddf0_b.jpg)
Whoops didn't realize that the ISF warped into an E92 M3
Just some pics a buddy an I shot at SOW
![Thumb Up](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#45
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I expect E90/92 M3 to be a much better car than the IS-F as I have both IS350 and E90 330i. I drove the IS-F on the track before and it doesn't feel that much different from my IS350 on coilovers other than F's torquey motor. My stock 330i is much more fun to drive than my IS350 even though it's underpowered. If I'm spending $50~$65K for a car that I'll be driving everyday for the next 4 or 5 years, M3 will be the only candidate, regardless IS-F being at the bottom of my budget while M3 at the top.