Help me buy a new SUV
#106
Lexus Fanatic
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I agree that CR today is the best source for reliability data in a usable concise format. Of course no survey is perfect, because it's based on a survey (with the inherent weaknesses of a survey).![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
#107
Lexus Fanatic
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I agree that CR today is the best source for reliability data in a usable concise format. Of course no survey is perfect, because it's based on a survey (with the inherent weaknesses of a survey).![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-17-09 at 06:03 PM.
#108
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
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Correct.
CR has an auto test-tack, in Connecticut, but they don't slam their cars around it or drive as aggressively as, say, the guys from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc..... trying to get absolute maximum-performance figures. The average American driver, under most conditions, doesn't drive that way. So CR doesn't do crazy stuff like drifting, powerslides, tire-burning max-launches, etc.....But they DO test for minimum-distance braking figures...in an emergency, a car may have to stop as short as possible. And they DO test high-stance SUV's, (with special side braces attached to them) for roll-over resistance with abrupt steering manuvers..
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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#109
Lexus Fanatic
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#110
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Yes. CR is very widely read....it is one of the most popular magazines in the country (though you can now subscribe to its website services as well).
CR and J.D. Power probably gather more automotive reliability data than any other organizations in the country. I served, though, for some time, on a long-term J.D. Power automotive focus group, and, to be honest, I wasn't as impressed with their intelligence-gathering as I am with CR, even though I've never been a formal member of CR.
CR and J.D. Power probably gather more automotive reliability data than any other organizations in the country. I served, though, for some time, on a long-term J.D. Power automotive focus group, and, to be honest, I wasn't as impressed with their intelligence-gathering as I am with CR, even though I've never been a formal member of CR.
#111
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I agree that CR today is the best source for reliability data in a usable concise format. Of course no survey is perfect, because it's based on a survey (with the inherent weaknesses of a survey).![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
CR's reliability data helps give auto shoppers substantial information to assist in the selection process.
CR reports are not the best source for information on instrumented accelerations/braking/handling comparisons and they lack appreciation, knowledge and experience with more sporting premium vehicles.
#112
Lexus Fanatic
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Look, the same thing happened to me. When I bought my first Japanese-designed and built vehicle in 1984 (a Mazda GLC), which I generally liked, it was partly due to my previous very poor experience with the American-built cars of the late 70s and early 80s, and partly because CR generally gave Mazdas better-then-average reliability ratings back then. Many Americans back then, like me, were switching over to try and get something reliable. Hondas and Toyotas, back then, were just too expensive out the door.....they all sold for sharp mark-ups because of import restrictions, and none of them were built here at home like they are now. So, I bought a Mazda GLC for list plus a very small mark-up (considered a good deal for a Japanese car back then). It was a little better than the average Detroit junk of the period, but still had a number of problems with pinging, emissions plumbing, wheel balance, and transmission shifts that took a LONG time to get out (almost a full year).....and that was with an excellent, Master Technician working on it (one of Mazda's best in the region). After that, it was fairly reliable up to around 100,000 miles, despite an ultra-lean carburator that caused a lot of weak throttle response. But it was like the experience you went through with your Pilot....CR generally rated the Mazda GLC reliable, yet my particular car had some repetitive problems for the first year. So.....did THAT make CR's data uneliable? No....by no means. My car was probably unusual for a Mazda of that period.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-17-09 at 07:25 PM.
#113
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iTrader: (20)
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CR surveys are a joke, not scientifically sound, preaching to the choir, rearward lookng and so only of value if you want to buy a used car.
#114
Lexus Fanatic
#115
Lexus Fanatic
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Of course CR reliability charts are not flawless, since they are based on surveys. But they are reasonable for approximating reliability of specific models. And some serious flaws or failures impacting a relatively low percentage of the owners will not always show in the charts.
And CR is not an enthusiasts publication. Other sources provide more consistent reviews and instrumented testing for comparison purposes. The purpose of instrumented testing and track testing is not to "slam cars around on public roads". The written feedback and data is useful for comparison purposes.
And CR is not an enthusiasts publication. Other sources provide more consistent reviews and instrumented testing for comparison purposes. The purpose of instrumented testing and track testing is not to "slam cars around on public roads". The written feedback and data is useful for comparison purposes.
#116
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
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1) long term tests by magazines and tv's MotorWeek.
2) the internet! yes, many problems can be overblown, but the internet itself tends to sort out 'complainers' and 'exaggerators' from real trends. if i was in the market for a lexus model i'd trust reading a few hundred posts on ClubLexus over CR's results.
back on CR's survey - have you ever filled one out? i wonder whether the participants get objective criteria on the full red circles through full black circles?
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
#117
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
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Of course CR reliability charts are not flawless, since they are based on surveys. But they are reasonable for approximating reliability of specific models. And some serious flaws or failures impacting a relatively low percentage of the owners will not always show in the charts.
![Egads!](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/pat.gif)
#118
Lexus Champion
#119
Lexus Fanatic
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There's nothing wrong with Long-term/Four-Seasons tests.....but they are, generally, only for one car (sometimes more than one). That is hardly a measure of a car's general reliability in the hands of consumers. CR receives....and processes.....thousands of results for just one make and model alone, particularly for mega-selling vehicles like the Camry, Accord, Ford F-150, and Chevy Silverado.
2) the internet! yes, many problems can be overblown, but the internet itself tends to sort out 'complainers' and 'exaggerators' from real trends. if i was in the market for a lexus model i'd trust reading a few hundred posts on ClubLexus over CR's results.
back on CR's survey - have you ever filled one out? i wonder whether the participants get objective criteria on the full red circles through full black circles?
and CR doesn't publish sample size, so MOST model results probably rely on extremely small sample sizes.
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-09 at 06:14 AM.