RON430

Man I sure don't want to justify JD Powers worth as I ultimately agree that it is just one piece of data but if I had to guess I would say that they somehow have decided to only count vehicles still under warranty. But I am not sure they don't do that kind of survey. I haven't looked at their products but they got to the point of wanting to make a lot more money from surveys and they started a bazillion surveys to sell them to companies.

You want to cover something? The OP article says that Jag sold just 14,000 vehicles in the US. I really do want to see results for low volume sellers but they should have a boutique category for companies that sell that few vehicles. Just not a big enough statistical sample size to put them any where near the same league as Lexus/Toyota. But I still think that with their awful reputation, they deserve some credit. Bimmer and MB results surprise no one.

mmarshall

You give those 70's vintage domestic cars too much credit, rosskoss.....I knew them well.

Except for a few, notably reliable components, like the Chrysler slant-6 engine and Torqueflite automatic transmission, most of the automotive garbage built in America in those years was truly J-U-N-K. If you got 50K trouble-free miles out of most of them, that was way above average. I saw many transmissions fail at 20-30K miles, especially on the new front-drive cars that debuted towards the end of the decade. The GM X-Body cars and Chrysler Omni/Horizon and Volare/Aspen (except for the slant-six engine), Ford Pinto, and Chevrolet Vega were probably the worst examples of cars with many major defects. Some other GM cars also had deliberately undersized transmissions, to save money.

rosskoss

Credit? I thought that's what I said....domestic cars in the 70s were junk. (or at least that was what I was trying to say)

mmarshall

What I meant by "credit" was that even 50K trouble-free miles was stretching it.........especially for the domestic cars produced towards the end of the decade. The X-Body FWD compacts from GM, introduced in 1979, were probably the worst. Entire books have been written about their famous defects.

You are correct when you say that few if any cars, today, including even the relatively unreliable (by today's standards) European makes have that 1970's level of unreliability.

93lexES300

iTrader: (1)

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...NsawNhcF9qYWc-

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

Not really surprised about buick, they make good cars, basically american avalons, or vice versa. Now Jaguar, that was a surprise.

LexPaul

Has anyone seen the latest J.D.Power study?...after 14 years Lexus has been kicked from the top spot by who???.......Buick and Jag. I'm at a lost for an explanation. Buick and Lexus??...Well for one thing I have looked at the Buick and it does not have the same build quality as the Lexus. I think the two cars the ES and Lucerne are not even in the same class,..... but that's my biased opinion, as for the Jag it's a sharp car...You can find the article here:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...NsawNhcF9qYWc-

I8ABMR

Toyota better get is **** together or consumers will stray . We al like a little variety,especially if the next brand is more reliable

GS69

I am pretty sure that Lexus worked out the 1st year bugs ... or @ least most of them. Consumer Reports did put the GS back on their recommended list ... not sure if that was for 2007 or 2008 tho. Then again, there is the ES350 which also had its share of problems when it debuted so it may take another year for Lexus to return to the top.

The G Man

Consumer report is much worst than JD power, they been giving Lexus and Toyota free pass for recommanded cars for year.

The G Man

Now that Lexus is no longer #1 in reliablility, what else does Lexus have going for them. They have fallen out of #1 in customer service as well, their recent designs have certainly been questionable. Performance wise, they are near the bottom.

With the exception of the Lexus suv lineup, the recent Lexus sadens have been a real disappointment. Lexus need to drop back and punt as they say in football and come up with a different stratagy.

The G Man

Personally, my own experience with Lexus reflects the survey's results. I have been driving Lexus for over 10 years now and have owned 4 of them. Every newer Lexus I had was built more poorly than the previous one. Sure there were more toys on the newer model and it perform better, but the cost cutting by Lexus is noticable to me. My 1st Lexus was a used LS, that sedan was like a tank, no rattles and squeak for the 3 years that I owned it. The leather was better quality in the older models as well as all the other built material. Those are the Lexus I would compare to the German cars in the old days. Those old Lexus was built soild just like the German cars and the built material was every bit as good as the German car, the difference was the price, the Lexus was way cheaper. Sure the German cars handle better, but Lexus made up for that in reliability. Now a days, it seems like the Germans are buildling better quality cars than Lexus and the newer Lexus are not that much cheaper than the Germans.

LexBob2

The Reliability of the ES350 dropped to Average according to CR. It was still Recommended duing this period (maybe just the '07 model year). It's now back to Above Average and still Recommended. I think a lot of models go up and down a bit reflecting changes and/or improvements.

In any case, the competition among car makers is good for consumers

The G Man

Maybe this is the kick in the ares Lexus needs to get things going again. They have been resting on their laurels for far too long.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so when lexus was on top for years there must have paid JD Powers or the ratings didn't have credibility then either?

or you have evidence they've somehow become corrupted in this past year?

can't have it both ways.