Originally Posted by tsavo

I realize that, they were rearranged. I'm sorry, but if you are willing to pay almost 32 thousand dollars for a 2010 model vehicle that has cloth seats, you aren't the brightest consumer in the world. Upgrading from the V6 to the Z28, then to the SS doesn't even get you leather seating, it's just another representation of how terrible GM is...If you want the car with any options, it's gonna cost you 40k.

Originally Posted by UDel

It is a American muscle car, not a Lexus or BMW so leather is not really all that important or needed in this type of vehicle, it is not like these muscle cars are going to hold up, feel and ride like luxury/upscale cars. I feel the same way about leather seating and other lux options in Accords, Camry's, Altimas, Malibus, etc as it is kind of pointless to pay extra for the crappy leather in these type of cars, you are supposed to buy them to be practical and save some money and it defeats the reason for those cars when you spend a bunch of money to load them up with unneeded luxury items like leather, nav, high end stereos, power seats, powerful v6 engines, etc to try to make affordable non lux cars into expensive imitations of lux cars. Let's be real too, the leather these muscle cars will get will be the same crappy awful low grade "leather" that Chevy's, Pontiacs, Saturns, Chryslers,Fords, normally get. I have sat in Mustangs, Corvettes, Firebirds, and Camaros with "leather" interiors and the leather is awful. My uncles Pontiac Grand Prix with "leather" was the most horrible seating surface I ever sat on, it was rough, hard, uncomfortable and did not look or smell like leather and was already cracking and fading after the first few weeks of ownership. I would take cloth over that cheap GM "leather" in a hardbeat especially in a muscle car that is supposed to be somewhat affordable.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Some people happen to LIKE cloth seats.

Originally Posted by tsavo

Leather is a "luxury" option? Eh, I would argue that it's an essential option if you don't want your interior to look like junk. Cloth seating looks very cheap.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

What some companies call leather, like the Mercedes Tex-grade seats, isn't really leather at all, but a glorified vinyl.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Maybe so, but the Camaro and Mustang do it in a contemporary way with the correct size and lighter weight.

Originally Posted by Indio

Realistically how many buyers will push these cars to an area where weight matters? If you are 5'8" take the smaller car, I'm fairly tall and will gladly take a disadvantage at the skidpad in exchange for more leg and headroom.

Originally Posted by tsavo

That's fine, but leather should be standard on the SS model, and on the Z28 model as well. Nobody said you couldn't get cloth seats if you want them.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

I disagree. Some cloth seats look and feel better than today's "Leather" ones. What some companies call leather, like the Mercedes Tex-grade seats, isn't really leather at all, but a glorified vinyl.



If you read my reviews, you will see that the "'Leather" in a lot of today's vehicles, though maybe durable, looks and feels crappy (the BMW X5 I reviewed yesterday was another good example). This seems to be an area where auto manufacturers have done notable cost-cutting, To get the same, nice leather that many upmarket cars had just a few years aso, you NOW have to either pay extra for expensive packages or buy top-of-the line models like the Mercedes AMG and Audi S line. For instance, I noticed the difference in the upholstery between the C63 AMG and the lower-lind C-Class models. Same with the Audi line. What only the AMGs and S-models have (now) is what almost all Mercedes and Audi products had a few years ago.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Wow that would be misleading/deception for sure. I'm not aware of any premium car makers calling it leather (when it's actually vinyl or in the case of Mercedes MBTex ).

Originally Posted by IS-SV

The old fashioned styling, weight, girth, bulk, and length is not everybody's preference today. I wouldn't expect much difference in skidpad or performance even when pushed due to the super-size. All 3 cars will have adequate room in front for the average American driver at 6 feet tall. For those that are extra tall, obviously their choices are limited.

The Mustang and Camaro (separately) should easily outsell the Challenger for reasons mentioned.

Originally Posted by rosskoss

GM is terrible because it doesn't have leather in an SS?!? Good grief!! Dude, LOOK AT THE POWERTRAIN to see where the money went.

Can you find that kind of performance anywhere (with or without leather) for that price?? And it's not just performance - the car oozes personality and presence.

Originally Posted by tsavo

I think you need a history lesson.

The Camaro had a great price to performance ratio before, and it was dropped from GM because of low sales. Apparently people want more than just performance when they're shelling out over 30 grand for a car. I guess GM still hasn't learned its lesson.

The car oozes personality? I hope you're joking. A retro restored Mercedes oozes personality. A Chevrolet Camaro hardly "oozes personality".

Originally Posted by tsavo

The Camaro had a great price to performance ratio before, and it was dropped from GM because of low sales. Apparently people want more than just performance when they're shelling out over 30 grand for a car. I guess GM still hasn't learned its lesson.