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New GM bankrupcty proposal: Kill "bad GM" so "good GM" can live?

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Old 03-28-09 | 10:14 AM
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Default New GM bankrupcty proposal: Kill "bad GM" so "good GM" can live?

Seems like a good route to take and may save the credibility of the good brands after liquidating the weak ones.

Unless Obama decides, God forbid, to nationalize even the automakers (taking them over), then this may be the only successful avenue to take.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...n-survive.aspx

A proposal to split the automaker in two could save brands such as Cadillac and Chevrolet while letting a bankruptcy court liquidate Hummer, Saturn and other assets.
[Related content: GM, economy, manufacturing, jobs, cars]
By BusinessWeek

General Motors (GM, news, msgs) executives and Treasury Department officials have made it abundantly clear that they want to keep the auto giant out of Chapter 11. But behind the scenes, GM and its advisers have been war-gaming various bankruptcy options as a last-ditch way to save the company.

One scenario being taken seriously goes like this: The automaker is split in two –- a "good GM" consisting of the brands and operations deemed most viable, and a "bad GM" made up of the brands slated for the junk heap, a big chunk of debt and underperforming operations.

The bad GM likely would be liquidated, say several people familiar with the automaker's thinking, and the good GM would emerge fairly quickly from bankruptcy as a going concern.

If GM ends up in bankruptcy court and chooses that strategy, it could solve some big issues.

So far, bondholders have shown little willingness to compromise -- at least not as much as GM would like. Under the plan, the automaker would convert much of its $60 billion debt into equity, and creditors would take stock in the "good" company and receive proceeds from the liquidated "bad" company.

With the threat of contracts being torn up in bankruptcy, the United Auto Workers might accept scaled-back staffing and benefits.

The two-company strategy also offers significant political and marketing advantages. The government, which would likely finance the company while in bankruptcy, could credibly tell taxpayers that the good GM had an excellent chance of prospering. And the move would tell consumers that it's safe to buy GM vehicles.

What would the good GM look like? Much like the company that executives described to Treasury officials in a restructuring plan filed in February. The good GM would keep Cadillac and Chevrolet. Ditto for GMC trucks, which are profitable in economically sound markets, and Buick, which continues to pack brand muscle in China.

GM would load up the bad company with Hummer, Saturn and any factories or operations it needs to ditch. Unless GM were to find a buyer, it would unload those assets in bankruptcy court, where they would be liquidated.

Dealers would have a tough time suing to be made whole while Hummer and Saturn are in Chapter 11. GM could even put its Canadian operations into bankruptcy. GM does good business there, but its pension plan is seriously underfunded. (Such a move would be less likely if the Canadian government provides GM the financing it has requested.)

Even with federal backing, a Chapter 11 filing would be risky, though. Creditors could hold up proceedings for a long time. As GM struggles to extricate itself, consumers could balk at buying its cars.

"Bankruptcy is like war," says Michael L. Cook, a bankruptcy attorney at Schulte Roth & Zabel. "You think you know about it until you go through it."

GM and the feds seem to agree.

So why is GM war-gaming bankruptcy? Partly over concerns that the auto market could worsen. What's more, even if the union and bondholders were to give the automaker what it wants, GM would still need to borrow $22.5 billion to $30 billion from the Treasury to survive.

Add $8.4 billion in Energy Department loans to help GM make more fuel-efficient vehicles, and the automaker could end up with a debt load of more than the $60 billion it already has.

If the Treasury decides it doesn't want taxpayers paying GM's creditors, a creative bankruptcy might be the only way out.

This article was reported by David Welch for BusinessWeek.
Old 03-28-09 | 10:58 AM
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Cutoff the bad parts so the gangrene doesn't kill everything maybe...
Old 03-28-09 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
Cutoff the bad parts so the gangrene doesn't kill everything maybe...
Amputate it already...
Old 03-28-09 | 11:23 AM
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In order for GM to survive, creative restructuring and "hybrid" bankruptcy is the only way...
Old 03-28-09 | 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
Cutoff the bad parts so the gangrene doesn't kill everything maybe...
No. Bring the so-called "bad" parts back to health and you won't have to amputate them. Saturn is the best example.....an absolutely superb company that was allowed to wither away because GM management, stubbornly, won't bring back the hugely successful (and loved) vehicles and policies it had in the 90's. If Saturn dies, it will be one of the greatest (and DUMBEST) automotive miscarriages of justice of all time...and could have easily been prevented.

I do agree with you, though, on the GMC division. Along with you, I see little reason for their continued existance. With few exceptions, all they do is basically sell rebadged versions of trucks and SUVs that you can easily purchase at a Chevy dealership. That, recently, was also the case with American-market Isuzus (rebadged GM trucks), and they had to throw in the towel.

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-28-09 at 02:14 PM.
Old 03-28-09 | 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
No. Bring the so-called "bad" parts back to health and you won't have to amputate them. Saturn is the best example.....an absolutely superb company that was allowed to wither away because GM management, stubbornly, won't bring back the hugely successful (and loved) vehicles and policies it had in the 90's. If Saturn dies, it will be one of the greatest (and DUMBEST) automotive miscarriages of justice of all time...and could have easily been prevented.
Trying to bring parts back to health infected with gangrene is bad medicine, yeeccch.

No, waste of money they don't have to begin with. None of us want to own a Saturn and lay down are hard-earned cash for one. I don't even know where the dealerships are around here, maybe they all closed already, nobody seems to care anyway. I agree with GM, a majority of Americans and a majority of auto enthusiasts, , cutoff the bleeders (Saturn, Hummer, Saab).
Old 03-28-09 | 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgdawg
In order for GM to survive, creative restructuring and "hybrid" bankruptcy is the only way...
I agree, some of the contractual obligations can then be settled for pennies on the dollar, keeping in mind that GM is flat broke.
Old 03-28-09 | 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
Trying to bring parts back to health infected with gangrene is bad medicine, yeeccch.

No, waste of money they don't have to begin with. None of us want to own a Saturn and lay down are hard-earned cash for one. I don't even know where the dealerships are around here, maybe they all closed already, nobody seems to care anyway. I agree with GM, a majority of Americans and a majority of auto enthusiasts, , cutoff the bleeders (Saturn, Hummer, Saab).
I agree. GM doesn't have the money or the time needed to bring back Saturn.
Old 03-28-09 | 05:31 PM
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The nice thing is that with the US government committed to fund this mess we will never find out what GM would have done in bankruptcy like any other company. In a non government funded bankruptcy, GM would have had to propose a restructuring that would have allowed them to raise necessary funding that would have very likely included axeing the "bad GM" and ripping up a lot of contracts and bonds. We will never know whether, under those circumstances, any bank of financial institution would have stepped up to provide debtor in possession financing. But now the UAW and the bondholders, and who knows who else, are convinced that they will do better with taxpayer dollars thrown at them. Who can argue?

Of course the last tiny detail is that if Hummer, Saturn, et. al. are the "bad GM" that needs to be flushed why didn't the "good GM" just flush them? Yep, there would have been law suits but if Waggoner had the guts to run the biz it would have been much easier to figure out who has what position and try to find a way to make them viable without just putting them on welfare. I guess it is much better for the economy to keep those people employed making Hummer shift ***** than do what evidently needed to be done months, if not years, ago.
Old 03-28-09 | 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
Trying to bring parts back to health infected with gangrene is bad medicine, yeeccch.

No, waste of money they don't have to begin with. None of us want to own a Saturn and lay down are hard-earned cash for one. I don't even know where the dealerships are around here, maybe they all closed already, nobody seems to care anyway. I agree with GM, a majority of Americans and a majority of auto enthusiasts, , cutoff the bleeders (Saturn, Hummer, Saab).
Well, with the Saturn of today, I'd agree with you......out with it, although the Aura is a nice product. But, my point is, the Saturn of today doesn't HAVE to be. After a superb decade in the 90's, the Saturn of today (the one you guys want axed so bad) was allowed to happen through stupidity. I'm not just being a Monday morning quarterback either ....I foresaw this, and wrote about it, years ago.

But that's where I disagree with some of you. The superb Saturn Division of the 90's (which had unique, reliable cars and ranked up with Lexus and Infiniti in customer satisfaction) CAN exist again. It doesn't HAVE to die. But GM management simply doesn't have the b***s to do what it takes. It will probably die, and you guys will probably get your way, but it will be a tragedy if it does.

So....yes, get out the disease, but do it with chemotherapy and radiation, not taking the limb off.

A Saturn recovery would not be alone, either. Many auto companies have come bouncing back from deep trouble.....Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Infiniti, and Acura, to name a few.....and Chrysler itself, several times

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-28-09 at 06:50 PM.
Old 03-28-09 | 07:02 PM
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Oddly enough, product wise, I think Saturn's lineup today is the best in it's history. By far. The Aura, Sky, Outlook, ect. are all very nice cars. But yeah, they've lost the uniqueness of the '90's.

As of right now, Saturn's lineup is better than Pontiac and Buick's.
Old 03-28-09 | 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JLSC4
Oddly enough, product wise, I think Saturn's lineup today is the best in it's history. By far. The Aura, Sky, Outlook, ect. are all very nice cars. But yeah, they've lost the uniqueness of the '90's.
Yes, the Aura is a nice vehicle, but you like the Sky? It may offer roadster fun, but it is cheaply made, with second-rate materials, has a difficult-to-operate top, and is, despite the different styling, essentially a clone of the Pontiac Solstice. It has also, according to Consumer Reports, been unreliable.

The Mazda Miata and Honda S2000, in many ways, are far better roadsters.

As of right now, Saturn's lineup is better than Pontiac and Buick's.
It's better in the sense that it has a wider product line-up and includes more vehicles than Pontiac/Buick, but Saturn, in the 90's, proved you can be hugely successful with one basic product....the S-series (I owned one myself for a while, and liked it). GM and Saturn management were idiots to get rid of those unique vehicles. A chimpanzee would have had more common sense (look at the Ion, for example, which replaced them).
Old 03-28-09 | 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Well, with the Saturn of today, I'd agree with you......out with it, although the Aura is a nice product. But, my point is, the Saturn of today doesn't HAVE to be. After a superb decade in the 90's, the Saturn of today (the one you guys want axed so bad) was allowed to happen through stupidity. I'm not just being a Monday morning quarterback either ....I foresaw this, and wrote about it, years ago.

But that's where I disagree with some of you. The superb Saturn Division of the 90's (which had unique, reliable cars and ranked up with Lexus and Infiniti in customer satisfaction) CAN exist again. It doesn't HAVE to die. But GM management simply doesn't have the b***s to do what it takes. It will probably die, and you guys will probably get your way, but it will be a tragedy if it does.

So....yes, get out the disease, but do it with chemotherapy and radiation, not taking the limb off.

A Saturn recovery would not be alone, either. Many auto companies have come bouncing back from deep trouble.....Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Infiniti, and Acura, to name a few.....and Chrysler itself, several times
Personally, I don't WANT Saturn to be axed - I THINK they will be, given the overall situation at GM.
Old 03-28-09 | 09:21 PM
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Whatever happened to the free market and letting companies survive, prosper, or fail on their own? Why does the government have to step in instead of letting the laws and regulations we already have on the books do their job?
Old 03-28-09 | 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman
Whatever happened to the free market and letting companies survive, prosper, or fail on their own? Why does the government have to step in instead of letting the laws and regulations we already have on the books do their job?
People seem to think that they need to protect the economy at any cost.
Whether that means re-writing what America is and stands for or printing and borrowing ourselves to death, it doesn't matter. All that matters to these people is today's economy and if that means the government taking over our country then that's what they'll do.

They've already thrown the Constitution in the trash and it's up to the People to take it out again. We need to make it clear we want our freedoms and free market back.



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