bagwell

I think the 3g Prius looks waaaaaaay better than the new Insight.

waiting impatiently for MMarshall's review!

thought this was awesome info as well...
"The new 1.8-liter Prius engine is the first Toyota power plant that requires no belts under the hood for better fuel economy and less potential maintenance."

mmarshall

Thanks, Bagwell. To get a little head start on the review from your post, the new dash seems to be a slight improvement from the geeky old one.....at least the shifter seems to be back on the console where it belongs. They still have the primary gauges too far away from the driver, though.

Internet and Toyota web-site sources say we'll probably be seeing the new Prius in May....production starts in April. Its exterior size looks like it's going to be a good competitor for the Insight.....but we'll have to see what pricing is.

shyguy16

very nice review.

2 questions.
1. does it come in manual like the original insight, or just the CVT?
2. are the batteries li-on or ni-cad?

SLegacy99

No MT option, only CVT.

Batteries are Ni-Mh.

mmarshall

Thanks.

As SLegacy99 pointed out, just the CVT. CVTs, despite their sometimes weird sensations and rubber-banding quirks, are often used on hybrids because of their great efficiency.

Lithium-ion batteries are out of date....that was 1990's technology with the GM Impact and other early electric cars. They are just not efficient enough.

Nickel-Hydride and nickel-cadmium batteries are considered the state of the art for hybrids today. They are also used in most pure electric cars, and in the upcoming extended-range hybrid Chevrolet Volt.

Nextourer

It's a little more normal as you've seen in the pictures that bagwell posted. The shifter falls to the hand nicely and is sculpted nicely (the way the fingers feel wrapped around it is very nice.. not that you'll be holding the shifter very often).

You forgot the most important thing... VSA (at least in Canada, it's on the EX only).

Impressive. Here's a quick low-down:

• Front seats are definitely more comfortable and the addition of optional power lumbar support helps
• ECO mode helps Joe Average achieve EPA numbers more easily. Combine that with a few fuel efficient trips and you'll see mpgs in the 60s and 70s as the media has found out in Napa Valley
• PWR Mode really does make the Prius feel more sprightly. Good to use for highway on-ramps or when passing a vehicle... or when you just feel like having a bit more fun
• 17" alloy-equipped models get quicker steering ratio so that's the model you want if you want a more engaging drive. That's not to say that the 15" models aren't that engaging because the suspension has been improved
• Navigation system now accepts voice commands in Eng/Fr/Sp and can be displayed in those 3 languages too
• Nav system features TTS (Text-To-Speech) as well as easier to use voice recognition
• LOTS of Lexus features such as Variable Speed Power Windows (from the LS460), Front Water Repellent Glass, One-Touch Illuminated Power Windows, Ambient Overhead Lighting
• Hill-Start Assist is included but so far undocumented (see if you can find that on your test drive)
• More rear headroom is appreciated
• Cargo space is noticably wider thanks to rerouted battery cooling
• Exhaust Heat Recovery System helps reduce combustion temperatures, thus saving fuel
• Exhaust Heat Recirculation helps heat up the coolant faster, thus helping the engine get up to operating temperature 3 mins faster at 0°C
• IPA is much improved. It'll actually guide you to the stopping position for reversing into the parking spot, minimising adjustment on the screen

I found the new Hybrid System Indicator easier to use and definitely the most useful screen on the new Prius. It's sorta like the Charge/Assist screen on the HCH or 1G Insight but shows the entire hybrid system usage instead of just the battery charge/assist.

ArmyofOne

As far as hwy mileage goes, I really dont think you can squeeze any more than 50mpg out of a non-hybrid civic. and you WILL NOT average 50mpg. More like 46 Avg, which is still 3mpg better than the Insight for alot less. I honestly cannot stand a CVT and still do not understand the point of them, they drive horribly and are devoid of driver-car connection that you get with the 5AT and especially with the manuals. I came to the conclusion that a Hybrid (leather and nav, loaded) wasnt worth the $26,000 they wanted to charge me last year. I went down the street and got a slightly used EX (next to top-of-the-line model, second only to the EX-L) with a warranty for $11,000 less. $11,000 buys ALOT of gas, even at $4 a gallon

bagwell

as long as you don't drive 80mph like the EPA test does, you'll get much better hwy MPG.

for example -- on my 2000 Insight, if I kept hwy speeds at 65-70mph I would average 72mpg -- EPA hwy mpg shows 61mpg.


what was your avg speed when you avg'd 50mpg?

and yes, I understand about buying the used EX versus a new Civic Hybrid with NAV...did the same thing with my 00 Insight, but did you look around for a used Civic Hybrid?

here's a 08 Civic hybrid for $16.8K 14k miles http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

what's overall MPG with your EX?

here's the Civic Hybrid numbers...

2008 Civic Hybrid
Number of Vehicles: 49
Average User MPG: 45.7
Range: 35 - 70 MPG
Updated On: 03/30/2009

2006 Civic Hybrid
Number of Vehicles: 108
Average User MPG: 45.4
Range: 30 - 72 MPG
Updated On: 03/30/2009

mmarshall

Thanks. It's good to know the new Prius handles a little better. Though I liked the old Prius's relatively smooth ride, its handling, from the high center of gravity and soft underpinnings, was not impressive. The quicker engine warm-up time should help fuel economy...the faster the gas engine warms up (with the batteries charged), the quicker it can shut off, and the electric motor take over.

mmarshall

With today's Civic, I agree, but my brother had a 1995 Civic CX hatchback with a 70 HP engine, 5-speed stick, and, wth the A/C off, a level road, light load, and moderate speeds, did over 45...he did get close to 50 on one occasion.

But you paid a price in drivability. The final-drive gearing was so tall that you had to slip the clutch to get it rolling, and the engine always ran at low RPMs and was sluggish....one of the secrets of the high gas mileage.

I generally agree. Nissan, to date, in my experience, seems to be the only manufacturer that has done a CVT that does not have surging/rubberbanding on acceleration.

IS350jet

Why must you throw Volkswagen into everything, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING!!!!

We... get... it... already!

LexBob2

Must have been another slow day at the VW dealership.

Nextourer

The 17" alloy combo definitely looks sharper (Esp. combined with the LED headlights) but the 15" alloys get the best mpg (3mpg loss with the 17" alloys). They are wider at 195/65R15. I did sit in the rear centre position but I don't remember how the ride felt in the rear as I was concentrating on filming.

nthach

Some people are used to the "kickback" or bump regular automatics produce - CVTs feel weird to me. The Prius eCVT to me feels a little like a automatic when it comes to "creeping" - while Honda's Multimatic CVT doesn't "creep" forward unless you nudge the gas just a touch.

And I've been in countless Civic Hybrids on the freeway and their engine will wail close to redline before the belt/pulley ratio changes.

bagwell

I actually thought my 06 Prius CVT was pretty good.

A rental Dodge Caliber CVT was crap.