Detroits Biggest Lemons of all Time
03-31-09, 12:59 PM
#1
Detroits Biggest Lemons of all Time
Saw this in todays paper (Daily News) and figured I'd share.
They've listed their choices of the top 15 biggest lemons to flow out of the Motor City.
Feel free to add or deduct from the list at your leisure
In chronological order:
1950s: The gas-guzzling Ford Edsel was a marketing disaster - widely considered one of the biggest commercial failures in American automotive history. Despite Ford pumping a large quality of cash into the promotion of the car, the Edsel sold well below expectations.
1960s: Was the Chevrolet Corvair "unsafe at any speed"? Ralph Nader certainly thought so, writing a book, "Unsafe At Any Speed," about the dangers of the American automobile, featuring none other than the Corvair. The Corvair allegedly blew-up when rear-ended and had "unstable emergency handling." It also had a host of problems including leaking oil, a heating system that delivered noxious fumes into the interior of the car, and more.
1970s: Not only was the Chevy Chevette slow and underpowered with a mere four-cylinder engine, many consumers found it outdated and unstylish
1970s: Possibly the most well-known of "Detroit's Duds," the Ford Pinto truly stunk. Its main flaw: it was prone to blowing up if rear-ended. Ford alledgedly knew about this design flaw but refused to fix it due to the expense.
1980s: The Pontiac Fiero was recalled for engine fires. It also had a trouble driving in reverse as the gears would engage very slowly (and sometimes not at all).
1980s: The Cadillac Fleetwood of the early '80s had some serious issues with stalling and bucking due to the cylinder deactivation system.
1980s: The Buick Skylark - well, it's just plain ugly, not to mention loud.
1980s: The Cadillac Cimarron did not sell well, as GM tried to position it as a domestic alternative to cars like the BMW 3 series. Consumers knew better than that.
1990s: The Chrysler Town & Country was rated one of the ten worst cars in terms of depreciation by Consumer Reports. It also received below-average reliability ratings.
(Although I must say that the Town and Country I rented recently was absolute a pleasure to drive)
1990s: Like the Chrysler Town & Country minivan, the Dodge Grand Caravan depreciates quickly. Many consumers complained about poor performance and fuel economy.
They've listed their choices of the top 15 biggest lemons to flow out of the Motor City.
Feel free to add or deduct from the list at your leisure
In chronological order:
1950s: The gas-guzzling Ford Edsel was a marketing disaster - widely considered one of the biggest commercial failures in American automotive history. Despite Ford pumping a large quality of cash into the promotion of the car, the Edsel sold well below expectations.
1960s: Was the Chevrolet Corvair "unsafe at any speed"? Ralph Nader certainly thought so, writing a book, "Unsafe At Any Speed," about the dangers of the American automobile, featuring none other than the Corvair. The Corvair allegedly blew-up when rear-ended and had "unstable emergency handling." It also had a host of problems including leaking oil, a heating system that delivered noxious fumes into the interior of the car, and more.
1970s: Not only was the Chevy Chevette slow and underpowered with a mere four-cylinder engine, many consumers found it outdated and unstylish
1970s: Possibly the most well-known of "Detroit's Duds," the Ford Pinto truly stunk. Its main flaw: it was prone to blowing up if rear-ended. Ford alledgedly knew about this design flaw but refused to fix it due to the expense.
1980s: The Pontiac Fiero was recalled for engine fires. It also had a trouble driving in reverse as the gears would engage very slowly (and sometimes not at all).
1980s: The Cadillac Fleetwood of the early '80s had some serious issues with stalling and bucking due to the cylinder deactivation system.
1980s: The Buick Skylark - well, it's just plain ugly, not to mention loud.
1980s: The Cadillac Cimarron did not sell well, as GM tried to position it as a domestic alternative to cars like the BMW 3 series. Consumers knew better than that.
1990s: The Chrysler Town & Country was rated one of the ten worst cars in terms of depreciation by Consumer Reports. It also received below-average reliability ratings.
(Although I must say that the Town and Country I rented recently was absolute a pleasure to drive)
1990s: Like the Chrysler Town & Country minivan, the Dodge Grand Caravan depreciates quickly. Many consumers complained about poor performance and fuel economy.
03-31-09, 12:59 PM
#2
1990s: The Plymouth Prowler looked like a speedster but with only a 3.5 liter V6 under the hood, it certainly didn't drive like one.
2000 and beyond: The Chevrolet Aveo was slow - very, very slow, taking 11.7 seconds to get from 0 to 60. And here we are in the new millenium...
2000 and beyond: The Pontiac Aztek's horrendous design repelled many consumers. It was voted "ugliest car" by The Daily Telegraph, a British newspaper.
2000 and beyond: The Hummer H2 with its miliataristic implications and giant, gas-guzzling reputation was a bit of a PR nightmare for General Motors.
2000 and beyond: The behemoth Excursion was Ford's Hummer - a giant, fuel-thirsty environmental nightmare. But boy did the soccer moms love it!
03-31-09, 01:46 PM
#3
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Japaneese failures...
...MKIII MR2
...Toyota Previa (ok only cause I dislike it my family and all owners loved it):
Honestly I can't think of any Japanese vehicles that didn't do well, even cars form the 70's: Celica, Accord, Civic. I can't think of any vehicles that exploded like Fieros or Pintos.... I think Nissan did have an SUV that rolled over (but didn't kill hundreds of people like the Explorer.)
Post up the Japaneese failures if you have any.. maybe anything Wankel that blew engines all the time like the RX7 deserves an honorable mention.
...MKIII MR2
...Toyota Previa (ok only cause I dislike it my family and all owners loved it):
Honestly I can't think of any Japanese vehicles that didn't do well, even cars form the 70's: Celica, Accord, Civic. I can't think of any vehicles that exploded like Fieros or Pintos.... I think Nissan did have an SUV that rolled over (but didn't kill hundreds of people like the Explorer.)
Post up the Japaneese failures if you have any.. maybe anything Wankel that blew engines all the time like the RX7 deserves an honorable mention.
A few of my friends' (including gf) parents all have one and they all have over 300,000 miles on the clock.... and still running strong.
03-31-09, 02:08 PM
#5
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I understand that most of the cars on the list were EPIC Fails, but just because a car has low EPA or is not as fast as it should be, does that make it a Lemon? 
Isn't a lemon based on reliability? 
Isn't a lemon based on reliability?
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03-31-09, 03:06 PM
#8
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Chrysler Town & Country? Most folks I know back home who drive them think they're good cars. They're built to a decent standard, are fairly reliable and they're comfortable and very family friendly. What's the problem (aside from inefficient motors)? 
03-31-09, 03:53 PM
#10
Lead Lap
LOL at the Cad-Valier Cimaron. What a piece of crap. I was surprised the Chevy Citation didn't make the list. With so many bad products out of Detroit, it's probably not possible to capture them all.
03-31-09, 03:55 PM
#12
Japaneese failures...
...MKIII MR2
Honestly I can't think of any Japanese vehicles that didn't do well, even cars form the 70's: Celica, Accord, Civic. I can't think of any vehicles that exploded like Fieros or Pintos.... I think Nissan did have an SUV that rolled over (but didn't kill hundreds of people like the Explorer.)
Post up the Japaneese failures if you have any.. maybe anything Wankel that blew engines all the time like the RX7 deserves an honorable mention.
...MKIII MR2
Honestly I can't think of any Japanese vehicles that didn't do well, even cars form the 70's: Celica, Accord, Civic. I can't think of any vehicles that exploded like Fieros or Pintos.... I think Nissan did have an SUV that rolled over (but didn't kill hundreds of people like the Explorer.)
Post up the Japaneese failures if you have any.. maybe anything Wankel that blew engines all the time like the RX7 deserves an honorable mention.
03-31-09, 03:57 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
I'm old enough to have test-driven, reviewed, or owned many of the cars in this thread....even the older ones, so I'll give you my opinion based on over 40 years of experience, back to the 1960's.
From an engineering standpoint, the early-60's Corvair was probably Detroit's all-time loser (later models had some improvements). It had a loud, clattery, VW-style, air-cooled flat four in the back, and, because there was no hot anti-freeze coolant, a separate (and hazardous) gas-burning heater was located inside the car (later models got heat from the exhaust shroud, and had to be driven a long time in the winter to warm up). The oil supply constantly splattered all over the inside of the rear-mounted hood and engine compartment because of a cheap, poorly-made $3 oil seal that was prone to failure (When I worked at a gas station my first job out of high school, almost every Corvair that came in needed 2-3 quarts of oil......we checked everybody's oil, back then, as a courtesy). The slats in the hood that let air in to cool the engine also let in rain.....sometimes shorting out the spark plugs and wires. The steering column, with its hard-plastic steering-wheel rim, in a front-end impact, had a tendency to pivot up and hit the driver's face, neck, or forehead, causing serious injuries, even with seat belt fastened (seat belts, then, were just starting to come into use). The rear-mounted powertrain made the car very tail-heavy, prone to classic oversteer, and easy to spin. Worst of all, (and well-publicized), the primitive swing-axle rear suspension (an easy, cheap way of doing IRS), sometimes allowed the outside edge of the tires to tuck under with moderately hard cornering force, and toss the car into a sudden roll-over without warning.
I don't often use four-letter words in public, but to put it bluntly, this car was a piece of *****.
From quality-contol point of view, and how poorly the car was assembled at the factory, I'd have to say the mid-late 80's Pontiac Fiero was the worst, although there were a number of close competitors...the 1980-85 GM X-body FWD compacts, 1970-71 Plymouth mid-size cars, 1978-88 Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni, 1976-1980 Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen, and some of the early 70's vintage AMC (American Motors) products.
The Fiero, quality-wise, was a true disaster....to this day, I've never seen its equal in the U.S. It was a small two-seater that used a FWD X-body drivetrain, mounted in reverse, on the rear wheels. It pioneered a multi-drill-hole system of aligning plastic body panels onto a space-frame, and many of the panels never got aligned properly at all (fortunately Saturn, later on, used a different, and much better system for its plastic-bodied cars).
I test-drove a 2.5L four-cylinder Fiero (the famous Pontiac "Iron Duke" engine) in early 1984, and was appalled at its condition it was sent to the dealership and PDI'ed (this was the version later recalled for engine fires). The steering wheel was canted some thirty degrees off-center, the oil-pressure gauge didn't work at all, the fuel gauge was questionable, the speedometer was jumpy and erratic, the wheels/tires were out of round/out of balance and caused a steering wheel shimmy, several plastic body panels were misaligned, and the drivers' door needed a good whack to close. Rattles and squeaks were prominent, inside and out. When I got back, the sales people asked me how I liked it. I quietly explained what I found, handed the key (and the dealer plate) back to them, said "Have a nice day" and walked out.
And, apparantly, my findings weren't alone. I found out later that some local Pontiac shops were head-over-heels in the huge number of Fiero complaints and service appointments, far more than they could handle. It got SO bad that GM set up a special system to handle it.....teams of Pontiac factory engineers would be sent to various Pontiac dealerships, on a schedule. Fiero owners who had major complaints within the warranty period (only 12/12 back then) were told to drop their cars off at a Pontiac dealership on a Friday (by schedule) and turn in the keys. They got a loaner car for the weekend. Over Friday evening, Saturday, and Sunday, a team of factory engineers (not just the local dealer service guys) would completely disassemble the car down to the space frame itself, correct all the defects they could find, and then properly re-assemble the car again, right there in the dealership, and have it ready to be picked up.....and driven off......Monday, when the customer returned. THAT's service.
From an engineering standpoint, the early-60's Corvair was probably Detroit's all-time loser (later models had some improvements). It had a loud, clattery, VW-style, air-cooled flat four in the back, and, because there was no hot anti-freeze coolant, a separate (and hazardous) gas-burning heater was located inside the car (later models got heat from the exhaust shroud, and had to be driven a long time in the winter to warm up). The oil supply constantly splattered all over the inside of the rear-mounted hood and engine compartment because of a cheap, poorly-made $3 oil seal that was prone to failure (When I worked at a gas station my first job out of high school, almost every Corvair that came in needed 2-3 quarts of oil......we checked everybody's oil, back then, as a courtesy). The slats in the hood that let air in to cool the engine also let in rain.....sometimes shorting out the spark plugs and wires. The steering column, with its hard-plastic steering-wheel rim, in a front-end impact, had a tendency to pivot up and hit the driver's face, neck, or forehead, causing serious injuries, even with seat belt fastened (seat belts, then, were just starting to come into use). The rear-mounted powertrain made the car very tail-heavy, prone to classic oversteer, and easy to spin. Worst of all, (and well-publicized), the primitive swing-axle rear suspension (an easy, cheap way of doing IRS), sometimes allowed the outside edge of the tires to tuck under with moderately hard cornering force, and toss the car into a sudden roll-over without warning.
I don't often use four-letter words in public, but to put it bluntly, this car was a piece of *****.
From quality-contol point of view, and how poorly the car was assembled at the factory, I'd have to say the mid-late 80's Pontiac Fiero was the worst, although there were a number of close competitors...the 1980-85 GM X-body FWD compacts, 1970-71 Plymouth mid-size cars, 1978-88 Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni, 1976-1980 Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen, and some of the early 70's vintage AMC (American Motors) products.
The Fiero, quality-wise, was a true disaster....to this day, I've never seen its equal in the U.S. It was a small two-seater that used a FWD X-body drivetrain, mounted in reverse, on the rear wheels. It pioneered a multi-drill-hole system of aligning plastic body panels onto a space-frame, and many of the panels never got aligned properly at all (fortunately Saturn, later on, used a different, and much better system for its plastic-bodied cars).
I test-drove a 2.5L four-cylinder Fiero (the famous Pontiac "Iron Duke" engine) in early 1984, and was appalled at its condition it was sent to the dealership and PDI'ed (this was the version later recalled for engine fires). The steering wheel was canted some thirty degrees off-center, the oil-pressure gauge didn't work at all, the fuel gauge was questionable, the speedometer was jumpy and erratic, the wheels/tires were out of round/out of balance and caused a steering wheel shimmy, several plastic body panels were misaligned, and the drivers' door needed a good whack to close. Rattles and squeaks were prominent, inside and out. When I got back, the sales people asked me how I liked it. I quietly explained what I found, handed the key (and the dealer plate) back to them, said "Have a nice day" and walked out.
And, apparantly, my findings weren't alone. I found out later that some local Pontiac shops were head-over-heels in the huge number of Fiero complaints and service appointments, far more than they could handle. It got SO bad that GM set up a special system to handle it.....teams of Pontiac factory engineers would be sent to various Pontiac dealerships, on a schedule. Fiero owners who had major complaints within the warranty period (only 12/12 back then) were told to drop their cars off at a Pontiac dealership on a Friday (by schedule) and turn in the keys. They got a loaner car for the weekend. Over Friday evening, Saturday, and Sunday, a team of factory engineers (not just the local dealer service guys) would completely disassemble the car down to the space frame itself, correct all the defects they could find, and then properly re-assemble the car again, right there in the dealership, and have it ready to be picked up.....and driven off......Monday, when the customer returned. THAT's service.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-31-09 at 06:48 PM.
03-31-09, 06:11 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
These cars were around when I was a kid and thats why I HATE American cars as an adult. The list is just the worse. Believe me that there were hunders more that barely missed the list. American cars of that era ( 70's -80's) are mostly ugly, inefficient, unreliable trash.
