ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

No it's not their fault that the company is doing bad, however, it easily becomes their fault when they refuse to accept a more "reasonable" wager to reflect what they actually worth.

If the D3 are doing well like they did in the 60s and 70s no one will give a darn if the UAW line workers are making more than some Ph. Ds, even though they do not worth what they are getting paid. However, that's not the case isn't it?

Indio

iTrader: (1)

Since this all the UAW's fault, not bad management decisions, not poor product planning, not overpaid executives someone tell me how the big three have been in business for 100 years? If paying union wages is killing them they would have been gone decades ago, the union has taken a 50% pay cut for all new hires (about $14 per hr) along with other concessions, everyone needs to sacrifice more, management, bondholders, to read these posts you would forget that along with Toyota GM, Ford and ChryCo sell more cars than anyone else.

Blackraven

You actually seem that you are siding with these bull**** union workers who constantly ***** and complain on such issues. Well case in point: They're being unreasonable indeed when they've already been given enough.

More like spoiled people indeed.

Hence why I, as I've said in my last post on this, believe that:
Labor unions = FAIL

Do not impose any form of socialist crap upon all of us

I8ABMR

UAW seems more like a group of parasites. They want to suck GM dry, even when its gasping for life. Let up UAW so that you will have something to bleed in the future. Think like the mafia. LOL

Btmnk21

iTrader: (1)

How about you accept a 50% pay cut after working for 20 years. How about you now decide how to pay for your house, car, and family? Starting union members do not make any where near what a PhD will start at.

Yeah I bet some people are making more than PhDs, but who cares. Where is it written that a PhD should make more than someone with 20-30 years experience in a field?

Since when has it become American to demand people make less, live poorer? Be ashamed.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Oh, so we are talking about American value here huh?

Well then, since when American value become "as long as I belong to an organized-crime orga... uhh I meant UAW, I DESERVE to get paid more than those who worked hard for a degree and actually have a real skill"?

Back in the days when the D3 were booming how come those UAW worker didn't thought about to better themselves by taking some class in their spare time (learn a real skill...), with the kind of money they were making I am sure they can afford the tuition... Oh no, instead they spent times in the local bar bishing/joking about the imports, over-extended themselves by buying more toys than they can actually afford. Now they want my sympathy?

You've gotta be joking...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i haven't had time to read the whole thread, but my two cents...

the UAW problem is that all their rules, and retirement benefits cripple any automaker. yes, somehow the big 3 have made profits during boom times despite all the shackles on them, but the party's over. their obligations to long time employees and especially retirees are so huge that there's no way chryco can survive. besides the uaw ball and chain, the govt loans will also be the kiss of death to both chrysler and gm who cannot pay them back.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, I just wonder what % of the cost of building a car do all these UAW workers represent. Afterall, the automotive industry isn't as simple as a bunch of engineers, CEO's, and UAW workers making cars from thin air under the same roof. AFAIK, the UAW workers simply assemble cars from parts that largerly come from the suppliers. Whether the suppliers are union or not, it is irrelevant, GM is simply paying set price for parts, and maybe GM, and other US manufacturers are overpaying for parts? If your are buying expesive (yet crappy) parts that are made in US, and Huindai buys Korean made parts for fraction of the cost, then GM isnt going to gain much by only getting rid of UAW.

The G Man

The way I see is that, during the boom times, these auto workers gain benefits, big wage increase and good retirement benefits. Now that times are tough, they should give some back to the company.

LexFather

Considering how bad the economy is and how unemployment is up, if they ceded with the Union, surely many Americans would jump at the opportunity to work there for reasonable wages/benefits.

mmarshall

WHAT spare time? They didn't HAVE much spare time in those boom years. They weren't in bars gabbing/drinking or in stores shopping. They were busy working overtime in the plants.....and yes, O/T at UAW rates is some pretty good money.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Really?

Back in 1982 at least two of them found time to beat a Chinese to death because they thought he was Japanese...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin

Yes, I know that's just a single case but just to make a point...

People are short-sighted and that's just the way it is. Back then if they are willing to spend some time, anytime try to learn a skill during the weekend (I am sure they can spare couple hours a week) then they'll have more options when layoff comes. Instead they were trying to rack up as much money as possible...

Oh wellz...

mmarshall

Well, if they escaped a lethal injection for that, instead of making cars, they probably would up making license plates FOR those cars.



And what was the easiest way for a UAW member to make extra money?
You got it......overtime in the plants, even if it was hard work. Why empty out their bank accounts for tuition when they could put money (and good money at that) INTO their accounts by working O/T? The workers building the Ford F-150, Explorer, and Taurus, particularly, had all the time they wanted.......Ford sold all three of those vehicles, for years, like hotcakes.....as Chevy did the Silverado, and the Cavalier and Malibu to rental-car firms.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Hey, no problem with me, if they were short-sighted back then and made short-sighted decisions then don't bish when the tide changes.

People gotta be responsible for their decisions, we as a human race can't afford to be sympathetic for some people's stupid decisions.

To be honest, if D3 are making money then I really don't have a case here bishing about UAW workers are overpaid (although I would still think they are). But right now GM and Chrysler are using government loans, which means TAX MONEY (mine included) then I think I have every right to say those unskill assembly line workers are getting overpaid by A LOT.

mmarshall

OK....I understand where you are coming from, ffpower, and your argument. But don't forget, the tax money and handouts are not all going to the assembly-line workers. That is only a part of it. A lot has to go for the materials used in the vehicles themselves......steel, aluminum, glass, rubber, plastics, fabric, leather, etc..... and the actual non-labor costs of running the plants. That includes energy costs, management salaries, costs of the machines and tooling, the costs of running and paying taxes on the buildings themselves, and many other bills. Running an auto company is a incredibly complex job.