silversprucesc3

Mike, do you think that this decision to keep a v6 out of the American lineup is to further differentiate this Sonata from the Genesis?

LexFather

It could very well be....a loaded V-6 Sonata would hit base V-6 Genesis territory. However EVERYONE does it and most do succeed in selling similar cars/powertrains at the same price point.

The V-6 makes what 306-309hp in the Genesis coupe? 380hp with the V-8? There are those that will want a V-6 in a smaller package like the Sonata. The Genesis is a larger car.

The Genesis supposedly will get the optional 5.0 V-8 as the Equus. I think a V-6 Sonata is a no brainer.

The G Man

As you know, look is subjuctive. Personally, I dont like the grill and for the most part, the Sonata's design is not conservative for some older buyers. Sorry, I just dont see the Sonata cutting into the Camry's sales numbers too much.

dunnojack

look at the bulging sides of that car. it's so round.

silversprucesc3

But I thought all ladies like the "bulge"....lmbo

speedflex

So what? Who said it was strictly about duking it out with the Camry. Hyundai has to have a strong competitor in this segment as it is the most important one for every automaker out there; Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, Chevy... everybody. All Hyundai needs is to strengthen their presence in that segment and increase market share (whether this comes from customers who were considering an Accord, Altima, Fusion, Malibu, or even Camry) and I am very confident this car will do that for them.

TRDFantasy

Wow, those new pics of the black car do make it look quite bulbous and round. Certainly not a good thing. It actually looks *less* athletic from some angles than the previous-gen.

Based on what though? So far, it seems the new Sonata offers nothing that would be a "game changer". Not in price, not in features, and not in options.

Hyundai improved their quality and reliability yes, but they also have raised prices and the dealership experience at Hyundai has not really changed.

Back when Hyundai's reliability/quality was rock-bottom, I think it was not so much listening to customers as it was Hyundai's desire to be taken seriously in the auto industry.

Now that Hyundai has become more popular, raised prices, and wants to be viewed on the same level as the world's top automakers, customers and consumers alike will have higher expectations. We shall see how Hyundai will react.

Like I said though, Hyundai owner loyalty so far has not been anywhere near industry-best.

Genesis sales, now that the dust has settled, really are nothing special, considering the sedan and coupe sales are combined together.

Wasn't the Genesis supposed to be a "game changer"? I kept hearing Hyundai supporters say how it was going to change the market, etc. yet the Genesis has done very little.

Genesis is selling at a lot less than 3K a month, which includes BOTH sedan and coupe sales, with the coupe selling at quite a lower price range than the sedan.

Styling is subjective. The Camry has a subtle elegance to it, and is a very well-proportioned design that has aged well. The Sonata, while at first glance looks more radical, has goofy proportions, strange styling cues that don't match each other, and mimics styling from a variety of other automakers. The current Camry you really can't mistake for any other car. It looks like nothing but a Camry.

Image is important, and it seems some enthusiasts don't fully understand how the North American market works.

Hyundai is pulling a Honda here, offering a (turbo) 4 instead of a V6. Performance-wise it might not be a big deal, but image-wise it will be.

Some of those older buyers are current Sonata owners, and Hyundai risks alienating them. Very young buyers are rarely in the market for a midsize sedan, so middle-age and older buyers make up most of the sales in the midsize market. Hyundai would be wise not to alienate them.

Blackraven

This new Sonata is amazing in design. Nice car indeed.

All-black on the outside and inside. Nice.

Good job on this Hyundai

The G Man

Thats a good point, I would much rather pay $1000 more and buy a Camry than to have to deal with the Hyundai dealers. 1st of all, there is not too many Hyundai dealers around and the Hyundai dealers in my area make the local Toyota look very good. And then there is the resale value, just the resale value alone can even out that $1000 one save by buying the cheaper Hyundai.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

in LOOKS. i believe this car, and it's details/trim will eat the camry's lunch. but as i've said, i don't expect it to eat much into camry's sales. probably TRASH sales of cars like the Altima though.

sweeping comments about 'dealership experience' don't mean a whole lot - there's good and bad for EVERY brand of vehicle. have hyundai dealerships been told to stuff more marble, wood, and latte machines in them? probably not. in this economy, that's a smart move.

selling 2k ($30k+) sedans a month means 2k less sales for others like GS, G37, 3/5 series, C/E class, etc. that is nothing to sneeze at. did it crush those other brands? of course not. anyone thinking it would is delusional. but to even sell 2k/mo in THIS ECONOMY with a new model at the highest end of what has traditionally been an economy brand, is remarkable. not only that even those that considered one but didn't end up buying may have bought another hyundai so the halo effect is also important. hyundai is on a roll...

silversprucesc3

If the Sonata had been the next generation Camry all the negative comments about design etc. would be screaming praise.

There is NO possible way that this vehicle is a step down from the current Camry. Brand loyalty is commendable but common sense must prevail.

I believe that based on looks it should be priced higher not less. That wont helps sales but this is not your dads old Hyundai..

TRDFantasy

As I stated earlier, some people in the 90s called the 3rd-gen Taurus a "game changer" in looks, and look (no pun intended) how that turned out. Looks are subjective really. Looks alone does not make it a game-changer.

The Altima though gets it's sales for a variety of reasons, including sporty handling dynamics and good performance. Will the new Sonata match or beat the Altima in the handling department? Very unlikely. The Altima (or arguably the Mazda 6) is the best-handling sedan in the midsize segment, and it has a bit of reputation in this regard.

The third-gen Altima, THAT was a game changer. That car had some really interesting (and ORIGINAL) styling for the time when it first came out, it offered best-in-class handling and performance, AND it single-handedly started a horsepower war in the North American midsize sedan market.

The Camry though is getting redesigned soon, so by the time this new Sonata has been on-sale for a while, the new Camry will have been unveiled. The new Sonata therefore will mostly be duking it out with the next-gen Camry, not the current model that is getting dated. I agree quality-wise it looks like this new Sonata has the Camry beat, but let's see what Toyota will do with the next-gen.

Oh please, that is not what I was talking about. I meant dealership experience in terms of SERVICE, and how customers and consumers FEEL and how they are TREATED at dealerships, *on average*. I'm not talking about exceptional or specific cases. I'm also not making this up. I can easily post plenty of links and evidence about Hyundai's OVERALL POOR dealership SERVICE, which leads to a mediocre dealership experience.

Once again, those sales are not sedan ONLY. Genesis sales are BOTH the Genesis coupe and sedan combined together.

There is nothing "remarkable" about this. Genesis sales started off quite well, and now WITH the coupe sales added, overall sales have not increased much. Now that the dust has settled, overall Genesis sales are starting to look shaky.

The Genesis sedan ranges anywhere from low 30K range to low 40K range fully loaded. The Genesis coupe starts off from the low 20K range all the way to low 30K range fully loaded. The volume models of each are the Genesis coupe 4 cyl and the Genesis sedan V6. Overall, if we take the average MSRP for both it is in the low 30K range let's say. So keeping everything in mind, selling 2K a month of BOTH coupe and sedan (with the coupe at a much lower price) is nowhere close to "remarkable" IMHO.

Let's see, how about:

- better resale value for the Camry
- better average dealership service and dealership experience
- best-in-class rear seat area
- more airbags
- better ride/handling than the Sonata (as has been mentioned in many comparisons and reviews)

Also I don't know where you got your information from, but the Camry has good reliability and decent quality/craftsmanship. It's not great on the current model, but it's not horrible either. The only point you have is low quality materials on the current Camry.

"World class prestigious brand" ? According to whom, or what? Maybe in Korea, but in other markets, definitely not. You must have a different definition and understand of the word "prestigious" than the rest of us.

Even brands like Ford and Toyota in most markets are not considered prestigious, yet you think Hyundai is?

Lastly, as I stated to bitkahuna, the new Sonata will be duking it out mainly with the next-gen Camry, not the current gen.

Once again, this is NOT about individual, personal, exceptional experiences at dealerships. What I mentioned was OVERALL AVERAGE dealership service, and the overall experience customers get *on average*. There are plenty of cold, hard industry numbers, surveys, and polls regarding this, that have been posted numerous times on CL.

Uh, no. If this was the new Camry, I would be criticizing it's goofy proportions and strange styling cues that have no cohesiveness. The previous generation Camry had some goofy styling. The current Camry has much better styling cues and proportions than the previous gen with the stretched bulbous headlights that this new Sonata is mimicking.

We'll see what the next-gen Camry brings.

The G Man

Not to over state that the Sonata is over price, but I can buy a Genesis for another $3000 to $4000 instead of a top of the line 4 cyl Sonata.

TRDFantasy

While you personally might not care about some of these factors, A LOT of buyers DO CARE. Things like resale value and dealership service are important. If you think they're not, I sure hope Hyundai doesn't share your attitude because that is being ignorant of the market and it will come bite Hyundai if they don't pay attention to these factors.

Also according to the majority of people worldwide Hyundai is considered a "prestigious" brand? Please post SOLID PROOF, otherwise you just make yourself sound really silly with such ludicrous statements. In the Asian markets, apart from Korea and possibly China, Hyundai is NOT considered prestigious. Go to Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, and I guarantee you will find Hyundai in those markets is nowhere near prestigious. I've also been to Europe, and Hyundai is NOT prestigious there either. Certainly not in North America as well.

You actually put Hyundai in the same sentence as Bentley and Ferrari?

You're making yourself sound more silly than a Korean Hyundai PR spokesperson.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

The Camry has a 270+ HP V6 it doesn't need a turbo.