next-gen Hyundai Sonata (revealed)
10-01-09, 12:54 PM
#272
Yes and if you keep spooling up the turbo to get that torque you're going to start sucking gas. The Genesis Coupe 2.0T has 210 hp @6000 and 223 lb-ft @2000. The Camry V6 has 268 hp @ 6200 rpm 248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm. The Subaru Legacy (which will probably be closer to the Sonata since the its getting a 2.4T) has a 2.5T rated at 265hp @ 6,000 rpm
258 lb-ft @ 2,000-5,200 rpm. The gutless Camry V6 will stack up just fine.
258 lb-ft @ 2,000-5,200 rpm. The gutless Camry V6 will stack up just fine.
10-01-09, 01:05 PM
#273
Lexus Test Driver
Why should we pay $1000 extra for a Camry when it's got poor build quality (cheap materials and poor craftsmanship) and reliability? I would actually pay $5000 more for the Hyundai for the following reasons:
- World class prestigious name brand
- Exceptional build quality
- Much more advanced design
- Hyundai's exceptional warranty
.
- World class prestigious name brand
- Exceptional build quality
- Much more advanced design
- Hyundai's exceptional warranty
.
Last edited by The G Man; 10-02-09 at 05:58 AM.
10-01-09, 01:05 PM
#274
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Yes and if you keep spooling up the turbo to get that torque you're going to start sucking gas. The Genesis Coupe 2.0T has 210 hp @6000 and 223 lb-ft @2000. The Camry V6 has 268 hp @ 6200 rpm 248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm. The Subaru Legacy (which will probably be closer to the Sonata since the its getting a 2.4T) has a 2.5T rated at 265hp @ 6,000 rpm
258 lb-ft @ 2,000-5,200 rpm. The gutless Camry V6 will stack up just fine.
258 lb-ft @ 2,000-5,200 rpm. The gutless Camry V6 will stack up just fine.
10-01-09, 01:36 PM
#276
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as you went on to say though, this new sonata will spend most of its life competing against a new camry so this is kind of moot, but the interior details alone on this new sonata make the current camry's interior look like a trabant.
The Altima though gets it's sales for a variety of reasons, including sporty handling dynamics and good performance. Will the new Sonata match or beat the Altima in the handling department? Very unlikely. The Altima (or arguably the Mazda 6) is the best-handling sedan in the midsize segment, and it has a bit of reputation in this regard.
The third-gen Altima, THAT was a game changer. That car had some really interesting (and ORIGINAL) styling for the time when it first came out, it offered best-in-class handling and performance, AND it single-handedly started a horsepower war in the North American midsize sedan market.
The third-gen Altima, THAT was a game changer. That car had some really interesting (and ORIGINAL) styling for the time when it first came out, it offered best-in-class handling and performance, AND it single-handedly started a horsepower war in the North American midsize sedan market.
I agree quality-wise it looks like this new Sonata has the Camry beat, but let's see what Toyota will do with the next-gen.
Oh please, that is not what I was talking about.
I meant dealership experience in terms of SERVICE, and how customers and consumers FEEL and how they are TREATED at dealerships, *on average*. I'm not talking about exceptional or specific cases. I'm also not making this up. I can easily post plenty of links and evidence about Hyundai's OVERALL POOR dealership SERVICE, which leads to a mediocre dealership experience.
Once again, those sales are not sedan ONLY. Genesis sales are BOTH the Genesis coupe and sedan combined together.
There is nothing "remarkable" about this. Genesis sales started off quite well, and now WITH the coupe sales added, overall sales have not increased much. Now that the dust has settled, overall Genesis sales are starting to look shaky.
Overall, if we take the average MSRP for both it is in the low 30K range let's say. So keeping everything in mind, selling 2K a month of BOTH coupe and sedan (with the coupe at a much lower price) is nowhere close to "remarkable" IMHO.
10-01-09, 01:37 PM
#277
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i agree. they drive, it feels smooth, peppy and refined. they buy. who cares what's under the hood if you're not an enthusiast?
10-01-09, 02:17 PM
#278
I know we're not comparing to the smaller Gen 2.0T which is why I included the Legacy GT's 2.5T. If the Sonata can get numbers similar to the GT it should be fairly successful. And yes people like us realize you don't need to be in the boost all the time but remember - most people are stupid. They gun it at lights and complain when their fuel economy sucks.
10-02-09, 09:40 AM
#280
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Genesis sales at 3K a month? How LONG ago was that? For September, Genesis sales including BOTH coupe AND sedan were only 1665. It's silly of you to compare the Genesis to the GS, because the GS starts off at a MUCH HIGHER MSRP, and a fully loaded GS is in a totally different class and price range than the Genesis.
Since Hyundai now combines Genesis coupe and sedan sales, we cannot say which model is selling more. For September, Hyundai could have sold 1,000 coupes, and only 600 sedans hypothetically. Fact is we don't know.
The Genesis competes against cars like the ES, and Infiniti G (not the GS), and against both of those the Genesis is doing poorly.
Price will be very important in determining the success of the new Sonata.
Since Hyundai now combines Genesis coupe and sedan sales, we cannot say which model is selling more. For September, Hyundai could have sold 1,000 coupes, and only 600 sedans hypothetically. Fact is we don't know.
The Genesis competes against cars like the ES, and Infiniti G (not the GS), and against both of those the Genesis is doing poorly.
Price will be very important in determining the success of the new Sonata.
10-02-09, 10:09 AM
#282
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Since Hyundai thinks having a 4 cyl turbo for it's volume midsize sedan is a better decision than a V6, then it must be right and all of us as well as all of the competition must be wrong 
.
.
10-02-09, 10:21 AM
#283
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Genesis sales at 3K a month? How LONG ago was that? For September, Genesis sales including BOTH coupe AND sedan were only 1665. It's silly of you to compare the Genesis to the GS, because the GS starts off at a MUCH HIGHER MSRP, and a fully loaded GS is in a totally different class and price range than the Genesis.
Since Hyundai now combines Genesis coupe and sedan sales, we cannot say which model is selling more. For September, Hyundai could have sold 1,000 coupes, and only 600 sedans hypothetically. Fact is we don't know.
The Genesis competes against cars like the ES, and Infiniti G (not the GS), and against both of those the Genesis is doing poorly.
Price will be very important in determining the success of the new Sonata.
Since Hyundai now combines Genesis coupe and sedan sales, we cannot say which model is selling more. For September, Hyundai could have sold 1,000 coupes, and only 600 sedans hypothetically. Fact is we don't know.
The Genesis competes against cars like the ES, and Infiniti G (not the GS), and against both of those the Genesis is doing poorly.
Price will be very important in determining the success of the new Sonata.
I highly doubt hyundai sold 1000 coupes and only 600 sedans. before coupe arrived, sedan consistently sold 1000+ units. somy guess sedan is selling more than coupes.
Genesis does compete with GS.If you go to genesis owners forum, you would be surprised how many people crosshop Genesis with GS.
10-02-09, 11:06 AM
#284
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I highly doubt hyundai sold 1000 coupes and only 600 sedans. before coupe arrived, sedan consistently sold 1000+ units. somy guess sedan is selling more than coupes.
Genesis does compete with GS.If you go to genesis owners forum, you would be surprised how many people crosshop Genesis with GS.
Genesis does compete with GS.If you go to genesis owners forum, you would be surprised how many people crosshop Genesis with GS.
Yes before the coupe arrived the sedan was selling well over 1,000 units a month. Now WITH the coupe and sedan, Genesis sales are under 2K a month for September.
Like I said, the coupe's average price is much lower (by 10K) than the average price of the sedan, so it's perfectly reasonable that the coupe is outselling the sedan, and that the sedan sales may have dropped. We will never know for sure because Hyundai does not split the sales of the two models (even though the Genesis coupe is really nothing more than a RWD Tiburon).
10-02-09, 03:52 PM
#285
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it's safe to say genesis sedan average about 1000-1100 per month from their past numbers. Coupe is the big flop so far because it's too expensive and it's going against mustang and camaro.
anyway 1000-1100 per month isn't really that bad for 35-42k Hyundai. people still care about the badge name especially for people who can afford 40k car.
anyway 1000-1100 per month isn't really that bad for 35-42k Hyundai. people still care about the badge name especially for people who can afford 40k car.