Car and Driver May 2009 Comparo 1. 328, 2. G37, 3. A4 2.0T 4. TL SH-AWD
04-29-09, 10:42 PM
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
1Sick, I agree, a 100hp is hard to overlook. But I would. Here's why....
The 328 is still no slouch in the acceleration department, it just doesn't pull nearly as hard from stop as the 'muscle car' Infinity. Infiniti 60 and 1/4 mile times: 5.4 and 14.0. The BMW 328: 5.9 and 14.6.
Now if you're a stoplight or highway hero and want to be able to stomp on it and trounce most mid-level sedans around you, you get the Infiniti. Because you get some luxury, solid-handling and an outstanding-performance engine.
But, if you actually like a tactile feel of the road without much cabin intrusion, sublime yet superb steering, and a smooth&engaging sounding engine, you get the BMW. Keep in mind, the Infiniti engine is pretty rough around the edges in terms of sound...it doesn't "sound" luxurious, it sounds like a muffled truck engine once it revs to the higher edges of the rev band. Also, the Infiniti suspension though quite compliant is still stiffer "feeling" than the BMW. You feel more pockmarks and bumps on the road.
And truth be told, you can enjoy the steering of the BMW, the compliant suspension and the great-sounding engine in the regular driving that most people do. You don't have to be hauling azz to enjoy a BMW.
So again, if you need that extra 100hp because you want the pure adrenaline rush of haulin' azz, the Infiniti may suffice.
But the 328 with far less hp is plenty fast enough for most people, the engine sounds MUCH better and pulls well if you keep the revs up, has a more compliant suspension, and is all-around more engaging when you're alone on a backroad.
So, all in all, I'd still take the BMW if I had the money and I could get it under warranty...the Infiniti is a real nice car, and is uber-fast, and is quite roomy for a smaller sedan, but it's just not 'special'.
It feels like a "faster alternative", because, in essence, that's what it is....the alternative.
The 328 is still no slouch in the acceleration department, it just doesn't pull nearly as hard from stop as the 'muscle car' Infinity. Infiniti 60 and 1/4 mile times: 5.4 and 14.0. The BMW 328: 5.9 and 14.6.
Now if you're a stoplight or highway hero and want to be able to stomp on it and trounce most mid-level sedans around you, you get the Infiniti. Because you get some luxury, solid-handling and an outstanding-performance engine.
But, if you actually like a tactile feel of the road without much cabin intrusion, sublime yet superb steering, and a smooth&engaging sounding engine, you get the BMW. Keep in mind, the Infiniti engine is pretty rough around the edges in terms of sound...it doesn't "sound" luxurious, it sounds like a muffled truck engine once it revs to the higher edges of the rev band. Also, the Infiniti suspension though quite compliant is still stiffer "feeling" than the BMW. You feel more pockmarks and bumps on the road.
And truth be told, you can enjoy the steering of the BMW, the compliant suspension and the great-sounding engine in the regular driving that most people do. You don't have to be hauling azz to enjoy a BMW.
So again, if you need that extra 100hp because you want the pure adrenaline rush of haulin' azz, the Infiniti may suffice.
But the 328 with far less hp is plenty fast enough for most people, the engine sounds MUCH better and pulls well if you keep the revs up, has a more compliant suspension, and is all-around more engaging when you're alone on a backroad.
So, all in all, I'd still take the BMW if I had the money and I could get it under warranty...the Infiniti is a real nice car, and is uber-fast, and is quite roomy for a smaller sedan, but it's just not 'special'.
It feels like a "faster alternative", because, in essence, that's what it is....the alternative.
I truly respect your opinion. You are a great driver. I see what you are saying and if you see my earlier posts, I give full kudos to the 328 for being pretty much all the car you need. THe balance is fantastic. The smaller size is an advantage for "feel".
Now reading what GlobeCLK said I think he agrees with me. THe bottom line is most 328 and G37 drivers will NOT drive them how C&D did. So here is what I ask C&D and anyone here;
Around town, just in and out of traffic, you need to pass someone etc, how can one IGNORE a 100hp advantage? There is no doubt that you HAVE to be more engaged with the 328 b/c its lower on power (you MUST be in the right gear) but the G37 would simply slingshot past in passing and in downshifting.
I don't find the G37 to handle much worse, its just a bigger car and you feel the difference in dimensions. Its one of the reasons I did not like the TL, I don't want a bigger car and while it has SH-AWD, it feels BIG (steering didn't help).
Now getting past driving, the G37 offers more room, more reliability, a bigger trunk, cheaper to modify, better NAV, a HD and IMO the interior is just as good if not better than the 3, which is a step back from the E46. I don't like the G37 for subjective reasons, it looks like a fake GS jellybean and the badge has 0 panache for me. The BMW wins in spades here, looks better to me and its a BMW.
All said it was a tie. It reminds me of when the 330 beat the IS 350 by a point in C&D a few years ago. Come to find out when you added it up, it was a typo and the comparison was tied.
Gotdamn C&D.
I don't think anyone is overrating BMWs. They are really that good in terms of handling. I had my buddy's 06 330i for a week, and it was probably one of the best handling cars I've driven (minus the MR-S of course). It's not 335i or G37 quick but it's definitely quick.
I think people are having problems with this 328i vs G37 comparo is because while the 328i is no slouch and handles exceptionally well, overall the G37 seems to triumph in most other aspects. Afterall, maybe superb handling for the 328i has the edge on the track over the G37, most people don't live on the track. And C&D seems to overly extraggerate the handling aspects as the only criteria of their comparo, which is retarded.
I think people are having problems with this 328i vs G37 comparo is because while the 328i is no slouch and handles exceptionally well, overall the G37 seems to triumph in most other aspects. Afterall, maybe superb handling for the 328i has the edge on the track over the G37, most people don't live on the track. And C&D seems to overly extraggerate the handling aspects as the only criteria of their comparo, which is retarded.
I just have a VERY hard problem overlooking the G37's advantages I have named, the biggest, having literally 100 more hp.
04-30-09, 06:05 AM
#77
Lexus Test Driver
Besides the handling, the 3 series have nothing over the other 3 cars, C&D's bias toward BMW have been well documented. I test drove the 3 and the 5 series 6 months ago, I could tell much diff. in handling in the city compare to the A4 and A6. If I drive the car on the highway doing over a 100 MPH like in a race car, I would certainly buy a BMW. Unfortunately, I live in a big city and I cannot do that. For the 99.9% of driving that I do, BMW is just not comfortable, luxuious and the interior is cold and un-pleasant.
The trade off of the the BMW is just too much, higher price, less options, rough ride and the worst part is that I have to get into that ugly looking exterior into a even uglier looking interior.
The trade off of the the BMW is just too much, higher price, less options, rough ride and the worst part is that I have to get into that ugly looking exterior into a even uglier looking interior.
04-30-09, 06:20 AM
#78
I test drove the 3 and the 5 series 6 months ago, I could tell much diff. in handling in the city compare to the A4 and A6. If I drive the car on the highway doing over a 100 MPH like in a race car, I would certainly buy a BMW. Unfortunately, I live in a big city and I cannot do that. For the 99.9% of driving that I do, BMW is just not comfortable, luxuious and the interior is cold and un-pleasant.
The trade off of the the BMW is just too much, higher price, less options, rough ride and the worst part is that I have to get into that ugly looking exterior into a even uglier looking interior.
The trade off of the the BMW is just too much, higher price, less options, rough ride and the worst part is that I have to get into that ugly looking exterior into a even uglier looking interior.
04-30-09, 07:57 AM
#79
Pole Position
Kevin, great to see you in car chat!! Having driven with you and raced with you I truly respect your opinion. You are a great driver.
I see what you are saying and if you see my earlier posts, I give full kudos to the 328 for being pretty much all the car you need. THe balance is fantastic. The smaller size is an advantage for "feel".
Now reading what GlobeCLK said I think he agrees with me. THe bottom line is most 328 and G37 drivers will NOT drive them how C&D did. So here is what I ask C&D and anyone here;
Around town, just in and out of traffic, you need to pass someone etc, how can one IGNORE a 100hp advantage? There is no doubt that you HAVE to be more engaged with the 328 b/c its lower on power (you MUST be in the right gear) but the G37 would simply slingshot past in passing and in downshifting.
I don't find the G37 to handle much worse, its just a bigger car and you feel the difference in dimensions. Its one of the reasons I did not like the TL, I don't want a bigger car and while it has SH-AWD, it feels BIG (steering didn't help).
Now getting past driving, the G37 offers more room, more reliability, a bigger trunk, cheaper to modify, better NAV, a HD and IMO the interior is just as good if not better than the 3, which is a step back from the E46. I don't like the G37 for subjective reasons, it looks like a fake GS jellybean and the badge has 0 panache for me. The BMW wins in spades here, looks better to me and its a BMW.
I truly respect your opinion. You are a great driver. I see what you are saying and if you see my earlier posts, I give full kudos to the 328 for being pretty much all the car you need. THe balance is fantastic. The smaller size is an advantage for "feel".
Now reading what GlobeCLK said I think he agrees with me. THe bottom line is most 328 and G37 drivers will NOT drive them how C&D did. So here is what I ask C&D and anyone here;
Around town, just in and out of traffic, you need to pass someone etc, how can one IGNORE a 100hp advantage? There is no doubt that you HAVE to be more engaged with the 328 b/c its lower on power (you MUST be in the right gear) but the G37 would simply slingshot past in passing and in downshifting.
I don't find the G37 to handle much worse, its just a bigger car and you feel the difference in dimensions. Its one of the reasons I did not like the TL, I don't want a bigger car and while it has SH-AWD, it feels BIG (steering didn't help).
Now getting past driving, the G37 offers more room, more reliability, a bigger trunk, cheaper to modify, better NAV, a HD and IMO the interior is just as good if not better than the 3, which is a step back from the E46. I don't like the G37 for subjective reasons, it looks like a fake GS jellybean and the badge has 0 panache for me. The BMW wins in spades here, looks better to me and its a BMW.
Good points, Mike. I see what you are saying. And it makes sense. In everyday driving, 100 hp can't be ignored...plus the Infiniti has the BMW beat in terms of value-added equipment AND has a bigger interior.I hope we cross paths again in the future, SOMEWHERE on the east coast (fingers crossed for another Lexfest). Spirited-driving is definitely our forte.
04-30-09, 09:17 AM
#80
I think people are having problems with this 328i vs G37 comparo is because while the 328i is no slouch and handles exceptionally well, overall the G37 seems to triumph in most other aspects. Afterall, maybe superb handling for the 328i has the edge on the track over the G37, most people don't live on the track. And C&D seems to overly extraggerate the handling aspects as the only criteria of their comparo, which is retarded.
04-30-09, 11:23 AM
#81
I would tend to think so too. 100hp advantage is very hard to overlook, and while the 328i has superb handling capabilities, G37 is also great, and is definitely not in as bad situation as having 100hps less. But sometimes just going by the specs is hard to predict actual track performance. The GTR is a perfect example of that, beating out cars with better power/weight ratio all over.
04-30-09, 11:27 AM
#82
Lexus Fanatic
That may be true, but, as far as pure driving pleasure goes , not many experiences behind the wheel can equal the tacile sensations of driving a BMW product. They are in a class by themselves, although, admittedly, some other vehicles come close (yes, even some Subarus).
04-30-09, 11:36 AM
#83
Lexus Test Driver
I test drove the 3 and 5 series, MB E and C class and the A4 and A6 6 montsh ago and ended up with the A6. The 3 series was the best handling but way too small and no option on top of that. Like I have already said 99% of the time Audi is a better car to drive, that 1% of the time when I push the car to the limit, I prefer the BMW.
Last edited by The G Man; 04-30-09 at 11:40 AM.
04-30-09, 11:43 AM
#84
Lol you make it sound like I have to be someone special in order to test drive a 3 and 5 series. They are everywhere here in the northeast. Do you really think that everyone who test drives a BMW have to fall in love with it and buy one?
I test drove the 3 and 5 series, MB e-class and the A4 and A6 6 montsh ago and ended up with the A6. The 3 series was the best handling but way too small and no option on top of that. Like I have already said 99% of the time Audi is a better car to drive, that 1% of the time when I push the car to the limit, I prefer the BMW.
I test drove the 3 and 5 series, MB e-class and the A4 and A6 6 montsh ago and ended up with the A6. The 3 series was the best handling but way too small and no option on top of that. Like I have already said 99% of the time Audi is a better car to drive, that 1% of the time when I push the car to the limit, I prefer the BMW.
04-30-09, 11:53 AM
#85
Lexus Test Driver
Dashocker, but not everyone drives like you. Audi drives like a boat lol, thats a good one. If Audi handles like a boat, what does a Lexus handles like?
You are comparing driving experience in driving events where there is a wide open road with no other cars, almost like a race track condition. The last time I check, my daily commute is not on a race track, I would surely pick a BMW over a Audi or a MB if that was the case, but it is not. For the rest of us who have to drive safety on public road, Audi and MB offers a better ride and a nice interior.
To me, you are just the same as those C&D editors in thinking that everybody has handling as their top priority when pick a car. A car needs to be a lot more well rounded than BMW in order to be a good daily driver. BMW falls short in many areas. Owners who have handling as their top priority is blinded by all of BMW's short coming.
You are comparing driving experience in driving events where there is a wide open road with no other cars, almost like a race track condition. The last time I check, my daily commute is not on a race track, I would surely pick a BMW over a Audi or a MB if that was the case, but it is not. For the rest of us who have to drive safety on public road, Audi and MB offers a better ride and a nice interior.
To me, you are just the same as those C&D editors in thinking that everybody has handling as their top priority when pick a car. A car needs to be a lot more well rounded than BMW in order to be a good daily driver. BMW falls short in many areas. Owners who have handling as their top priority is blinded by all of BMW's short coming.
Last edited by The G Man; 04-30-09 at 12:05 PM.
04-30-09, 12:42 PM
#86
Lexus Test Driver
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While I wouldn't say an Audi drives anything like a boat, there is truth to what DASHOCKER is saying. A BMW is a better driving car that most Audi's.
04-30-09, 12:57 PM
#87
Dashocker, but not everyone drives like you. Audi drives like a boat lol, thats a good one. If Audi handles like a boat, what does a Lexus handles like?
You are comparing driving experience in driving events where there is a wide open road with no other cars, almost like a race track condition. The last time I check, my daily commute is not on a race track, I would surely pick a BMW over a Audi or a MB if that was the case, but it is not. For the rest of us who have to drive safety on public road, Audi and MB offers a better ride and a nice interior.
To me, you are just the same as those C&D editors in thinking that everybody has handling as their top priority when pick a car. A car needs to be a lot more well rounded than BMW in order to be a good daily driver. BMW falls short in many areas. Owners who have handling as their top priority is blinded by all of BMW's short coming.
You are comparing driving experience in driving events where there is a wide open road with no other cars, almost like a race track condition. The last time I check, my daily commute is not on a race track, I would surely pick a BMW over a Audi or a MB if that was the case, but it is not. For the rest of us who have to drive safety on public road, Audi and MB offers a better ride and a nice interior.
To me, you are just the same as those C&D editors in thinking that everybody has handling as their top priority when pick a car. A car needs to be a lot more well rounded than BMW in order to be a good daily driver. BMW falls short in many areas. Owners who have handling as their top priority is blinded by all of BMW's short coming.
Last edited by DASHOCKER; 04-30-09 at 01:01 PM.
04-30-09, 01:00 PM
#88
Lexus Test Driver
I think most everybody here can agree that BMW drives better than an Audi. If the C&D comparo was based solely on handling, then the 328 is the winner. If the comparo was based on all the characteristics that an everyday driver would look for in a luxury sport sedan, then the BMW 328 fall short in many areas.
Last edited by The G Man; 04-30-09 at 01:10 PM.
04-30-09, 01:07 PM
#89
Lexus Test Driver
I drive my 335 every other day. I work in Manhattan & live in Queens. My commute consists of driving on the asphault missing BQE, bumpy LIE, & unevenly paved GCP. Let me tell you out of all of the vehicles I have ever owned or driven on the streets & highways, BMWs exhibit a composed & controllable ride. Bump steer is absent from these cars. Can the same be said of Audi? The answer to this is NO.. The chassis and suspensions in BMWs feel as if they were milled from 1 solid piece of steel. When driving over road defects the car does not feel like two halves. Sounds familiar Gman? Don't get me wrong, Audi's are beautiful cars but the are front heavy, exhibit nose dive, body roll, lack of full driver control in stock form. Hell even the might RS4 exhibits these traits. Top Gear Apple test vid for the folks at home anyone? I drove this car in real life too buddy.. Thanks Biener Audi! Loved the power, shifts, seats, & styling but this car is a wild bull. Control is the key. The result is safety, performance & everyday practicality for the driver.. Other car companies try but can't match or exceed what BMW vehicles have to offer in this regard.. Enjoy your Audi! Which year by the way?
The 335Xi price out to be about the same as the A6 with similar option. I choose size, styling, comfort and luxury over performance. I have push the A6 hard a few time and really never felt out of control and do not feel bad about bypassing the 3 series. Keep in mind that I am almost at retirement age, so to me driving fast is 20 MPH over the speed limit
If only someone can combine BMW's handling, Lexus reliability and Audi's styling, we might have something there.
Last edited by The G Man; 04-30-09 at 01:16 PM.
04-30-09, 01:59 PM
#90
Guys with all due respect to BMW's "dynamics", its not like we are comparing a Ferrari Enzo to LX450 here. We are talking about minimal difference here, that most average drivers wont even be able to notice, at least not until they get used to one or the other. It takes more than a single test drive to learn all of your cars handling and driving characteristics.
With that being said its hard to overlook the additional 100 horses found in the G37, and G37's interior simply puts the 3 series to shame. I would have a hard time chosing a 335 over the G37, never mind the 328.
With that being said its hard to overlook the additional 100 horses found in the G37, and G37's interior simply puts the 3 series to shame. I would have a hard time chosing a 335 over the G37, never mind the 328.