superchan7

Which car has more rear seat room?

mmarshall

Sorry, I respect your opinion on that, but I disagree. Hondas come from the factory, IMO, in better condition than any other vehicles today....yes, often outdoing their more expensive Acura cousins. But I won't disagree with your comments about some of the Honda interior parts in terms of their solidness...like many manufacturers, we're seeing evidence of some cost-cutting there.

Until recently, though (the last 3-4 years), I would have said Lexus had the best factory quality control.

-J-P-L-

I don't think the Insight's interior is that bad but when compared to the Prius which Toyota accomplished for only $2K more and includes a much more advanced drivetrain, then it makes Honda look bad here. The Prius interior would be suitable in a $35K car.

Everyone's going to compare the Prius and Insight but Honda set out to undercut the Prius and put itself behind in the process. Turns out, that the price isn't low enough or that Toyota is offering a tremendous value in the base Prius (I pick the latter).

Again, all this hype over the Insight's starting price while forgetting that it isn't really much cheaper than the others.

Point is, is that it seems silly that Toyota is now forced to compete price-wise with a lesser car when it was already competing with the Civic H at around the same price. People just need to do their homework before deciding.

-J-P-L-

Between the Civic and Insight? The Civic easily.

mmarshall

Yes. Most of my comments have been based on the existing 2009 Prius, not the upcoming 2910 model. I know that when the 2010 model debuts (I'm going to review one ASAP) it may (?) be a whole new ball game. And, if it is, I'll adjust my comments accordingly.

Just from the pictures, though, I like the way that Toyota has (finally) gone to a more conventional transmission shifter on the console, but I'm disappointed that the main gauges are not in front of the driver like on the Insight/Civic Hybrids.

LexFather

When thinking about the Insight

-J-P-L-

It's due late May.

I assumed we've all been talking about the new 2010 model rather than comparing a 5 year old car with the Insight. The 2nd gen is history.

SLegacy99

Passengers in the rear seat of the Prius are likely to be more comfortable, since it has significantly more legroom (36 inches) than the Insight (33.5 inches). The Prius wins when it comes to cargo space, too: the Insight has 15.9 cubic feet of trunk space to the Prius' 21.6 cubic feet. When the rear seat is folded down, the Insight can hold 31.5 cubic feet to the Prius' 39.6.

Sens4Miles

While the specs on the Insight and Civic Hybrid are similar, I think it's Honda's way of separating the market for those looking to purchase a hybrid at a similar price point. I see nothing wrong with Honda offering a dedicated hybrid (Insight) alongside an existing sedan hybrid (Civic) to those who prefer either a "hey, look at me, I'm driving a hybrid!!" types vs those who prefer more traditional sedan styling.

I guarantee if Toyota made a Corolla hybrid, the same comparisons would be made with the Prius (why get a Prius when you can just get a Corolla hybrid instead?). Toyota can make a Corolla hybrid with almost the same fuel efficiency as the Prius, yet they choose not to. I happen to personally think that's a mistake. Because like I said, there are those types of people (like myself) who would prefer more traditional sedan styling yet still get the same or similar mpg of a typical hybrid. Clearly, Toyota does not want to chance cannibalizing some sales of their Prius with sales of a Corolla hybrid, which is why they haven't made one.

I see nothing wrong with the Civic hybrid and Insight sharing similar specs. Honda could have done the same thing as Toyota and made the Accord (4 cyl) a hybrid (like they did with the Camry) instead of the Civic, but they chose to put the IMA system on their most efficient model instead. I still think Honda should hybridize the Accord (just like I think Toyota should hybridize the Corolla), because IMO there's enough room for all 3 models (Insight, Civic hybrid, & Accord hybrid) to equally coexist within the market.

mmarshall

I know that you are some 6' 5". Trust me......Don't even THINK about the Insight's rear seat. At 6' 2" myself, the way the rear roofline is designed, I can't get in the back without twisting up like a pretzel and ducking my head down to my chest. Once inside the rear, I can't hold my head up all the way.....it bumps the roof. It's like the Lexus IS250/350's skimpy back seat, but without as much headroom.

mmarshall

Agreed. And I think the Insight will have enormous appeal to those who want a cheap-as-possible hybrid and don't mind the skimpy rear seat.


The upcoming Lexus HS250 is essentially a glorified Corolla Hybrid, though, of course, it will cost more than a Corolla Hybrid would have.

I am quite interested in the HS myself, plan to review it throughly, and may (?) consider a purchase if I don't go with another Subaru.

-J-P-L-

The HS is really based off the Avensis. Nothing from the Corolla is in the larger HS.

Nevertheless, I think Toyota has held off of a Corolla Hybrid because of marketing. It would price the corolla too high (prius level). That said, when the hybrid tech continues to become more affordable, I think we'll see a Corolla H. There's even talks of a Yaris Hybrid (next gen based)! That should be good for 60 mpg! I think if this happens, the Yaris would be the cheapest hybrid on the market when it comes to pass. $17K maybe?

Trexus

So your next car won't be an American car then...

-J-P-L-

Why would it be? He hasn't bought American in a long time.

oldcajun

There is a major strategic difference between the Insight and Prius (and maybe even between the Insight and Civic Hybrid) and that is that Honda expects to make a profit on each Insight sold. Toyota is still not covering the full cost of the Prius at US prices. The Insight has now forced Toyota to lower the MSRP of the base Prius to compete. To cover this, I expect to see most of the Prius's sold here to be pretty loaded, with the base car very rare, sort of like the RX350 with cloth seats. Honda's hybrid system is not as good as Toyota's but it is cheaper to manufacture. You get about 80% of the improvement for something like 60% of the additional cost.

With the government mandated 35 mpg average coming up, being able to build an affordable and profitable hybrid gets to be very important. Just look at GM's struggle with the Volt. Probably a great concept, but the price for the compact size Volt is now nearing $40K and there is still a lot of development work to do.

Insight is a really good car for the money, but like most on this board, as long as Toyota continues to subsidize the Prius, I'd rather have it.

Steve