MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Having worked in a dealership service department I have obviously driven countless older Lexus models and they all seem to wear remarkably well inside. My experience with older MBs, BMWs, and Audis has largely been through friends or family so it is really hard to tell how a car was treated, where it has been parked it's whole life, how it has been maintained, etc.

In my personal experience Lexus leather seems to wear better over time, but again...that is hardly conclusive evidence. Just my observations.

LexFather

I think we all were pretty much in shock in how the ES 350 exterior made the ES 330 look like a blob but the ES 330 interior blew the ES 350 interior away. I find the ES 330 interior to be one of the best designed/pleasing to the eye interiors ever. Simple, nice wood, easy to use ergonomics.

What people are forgetting is Lexus is conservative and Lexus/Toyota hates waste. They are not going to do everything the Germans do. Let me REMIND everyone this is a company that only a few years ago offered one wood in most cars and maybe 3 leather options( Beige/grey/black). We have seen in recent years Lexus offering more wood/leather combinations. The RX 400h has an aluminum option as the IS (not sure if the IS does it anymore). I am not defending it but the REASON is lower production costs and this allows Lexus dealers to have cars on lots people will usually want. We clearly have given the Germans plenty of kudos for offering seemingly endless options in regards to wood/aluminum/leather. It does cost though and will a Lexus buyer pay an additional $2500-$3000 for some wood/leather? It will also slow down the production process and increase the chance of waste, something Toyota/Lexus is adamant against.

We have examples of LS 600h L potential buyers walking out on the deal b/c they wanted options/colors a certain way and Lexus pretty much didn't listen. Either they will have to expand their way of thinking and appeal to these peoples demands in the future or they will continue to produce (and with success I might add) what they THINK people want in regards to wood/leather.
I agree. The German leathers I have liked are usually the higher option leathers in teh S class/7 etc.
Lexus has real leather standard, not pleather. They also have moved to semi-analine leathers recently in some cars.

Lexus leather as we all know has been very solid and holds up well over time.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

That's the problem

Go to Toyota.com and try to build a Corolla. What are your interior options? Oh! Tan, gray, or black...just like the $65K GS 450h. The $55K GX and $87K LX don't even give you that many options!

As far as wood...if they can dye some wood maple red/brown then I see no reason they can't dye some of it a rich espresso brown like on the SC, or dark brown ash on the LS, or black. I would guess the SC and LS use higher quality wood trims but I am strictly talking about colors of dye- not quality of wood.

The same essentially goes for leather: if we can dye some "Cashmere" or Black then why can't we dye cars other than the LS and SC alabaster, camel, or saddle? How about Alpine available in the regular IS and maybe the GS?

















As we can see...these unique colors are out there within the Lexus lineup. They DO exist! Just not for a car that costs less than $60K (IS-F or GS) and most of them are $70K and above (SC and LS). I can understand and even respect Lexus' conservative nature and their tendency to restrict color combinations for retail purposes, but they really do need to try to break their own mold a little more. Just another wood or leather option here or there would go miles for people like us who do care about these things.

LexFather

Mike I don't disagree with you really and you make fantastic points (and those interiors are ****, I love the LS one). Lets not forget every Lexus Pebble Beach or Neiman Marcus edition and other special editions with different colors/woods do sell and have sold well.

Let though, make an example of how this creates "waste". I will use our Vendor forum and what usually happens to them (which to me seems frustrating) and how it creates WASTE.

Vender offers GB-

"Hey, we have a GB on all 19" Work wheels, polished like you guys say you want with 2 " front and 3.5" rear lips". You guys said u want it, we got them in stock ready for you. These will fit GS/IS/SC

Person
A-Do these fit the GX?
B-Can I get them in 20"
C-Can I get the rear lip in 5"
D-I don't want staggered, can I get the same size all around
F-Can you guys paint it in black
G-Can I get the rivets in blue and the spokes in gold?

Vendor-Sorry, this is what you guys said you wanted and we ordered a bunch in stock for you. What you are asking will take months to get and the price will go up since you want individual options

People
"this is bullcrap, why does it cost more"
"I don't want to wait that long why do I have to wait"
"this company sucks, I want Work wheels"

Vendor
-Okay guys, we will now take custom orders for Work wheels, any size and color. We ordered 18", 20". we have black in stock now. We have different lip sizes. Our warehouse is overflowing with wheels.
People
"How long is the GB, i don't have money now"
"Can you get BBS wheels like this"
"Will this fit a LX"?

ETC ETC ETC

It creates waste, waste waste. Now the vendor has a bunch of different color wheels in stock no one wants. People end up buying the original wheels b/c the price is lower and it has a classic look that goes with anything.

That is like Lexus. I'm not saying its right, I am just showing how production would be insane for Lexus, thus increasing costs for everyone, if they has single color/leather/wood options.

That said if Lexus does want to continue to ELEVATE itself, they will have to find a way to offer what you and many others are asking.

Mike "the guy who wishes he could have a black leather GS, with blue stitching, with blue carpet and blackwood and call it Passionate Blue"

LexFather

Oh lets talk about Dealers, the people who actually order the cars to be sold.

(Lexus does offer the white leather in the IS-F and the reddish interior as well, something we should be shocked about. )

One last PROBLEM. Lexus dealers are JUST AS if not MORE conservative than Lexus HQ, thus dealers order safe bets b/c Lexus customersa are safe customers. That means the usual white/black car with beige interior. You pretty much have to order a white leather IS-F for example. Dealers nearly ALL ordered the black interior b/c it would sell faster. Dealers do NOT want to order cars/colors/woods that will not usually sell and only appeal to some "rare" customer. They do not want their Lexus sitting 100 days on the lot. Lexus dealers are some of if not THE BEST at moving inventory in stock.

So blame the dealers as well.

On the flipside, this creates a HUGE opportunity for a Lexus dealer to be the "go to" place for rarer color/optioned Lexus.

lexusscturbo

iTrader: (12)

1SickLex in-terms of custom orders; BMW dealers also require some sort of nonrefundable deposit as well for the custom order cars..Which I don't blame them for ...Now who'd want a yellow E46 330 sedan lol

LexFather

Thanks for the info. BMW dealers though are more inclined to order a "different" color car b/c they know SOMEONE will come in and buy it. BMW customers are less conservative than Lexus ones. MPLexus talked about that.

We also know BMW/Audi/Benz offers "Euro delivery". We have talked here about "Japanese delivery" but it clearly would be vastly different and not something many would be interested in.

Gojirra99

No reason why Lexus can't do the same, for those customers that aren't fooling around, if the customer pull out after customer ordering, then at least Lexus would be compensated for the trouble, plus they can still sell the car with the unusual combination ...

lexusscturbo

iTrader: (12)

Drivers in japan...much left to be desired, and who'd want to be stuck in traffic for so long lol.
Now in Europe you at least get the ring and some good brownies

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Mike you make good points about both customization vs. standardization, and the dealer network.

I have a similar stance on both:

I don't think that things like camel, alabaster, or alpine leathers or espresso, black, or dark brown ash woods are anything that the average customer would care that much about, while it might mean a world of difference to an enthusiast. Saddle is a little much for some people so I can understand that, but it was very successful on the SC. Maybe offering a few thousand saddle interior units in the IS and GS would go over well with customers. Colors like that, or red leather in the SC, should remain rare and exclusive but at least still have them available.

For instance...there isn't a huge discrepancy in color between these three:







The leather is a bit darker or lighter, the wood is a little more brown or red, but I don't think it's anything that would shock your average consumer. To an enthusiast like myself and some others, the difference between cashmere/golden maple and camel/espresso is a make it or break it scenario. There is no way I would drive a 3GS with the cashmere interior, whereas I'd give anything for one with the SC interior combination.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been getting in my car, at a gas pump, or sitting at a stoplight with my windows down and a fellow Lexus owner will say, "Man I LOVE that interior!" or "Wow I never saw that option...if I had known I would rather have that over tan." I get these comments almost weekly from fellow 2GS owners, but several others. Last night I was getting out of my car in a parking deck and a guy with an LS430 came over and complemented my interior. When I told him they offered the same one on his car he was completely shocked.

Customer: "I just want a black GS 350 with like...um...tan interior."

Salesman: "Ok I'll grab the key to one of those but we also have a GS that is black on Saddle leather- it's like a deeper brown, rust color. It's very rich looking...you should take a look. They're pretty rare...this is our first or second one."

Customer: "Oh wow let me see what it looks like!"

You could substitute "Saddle" for Alpine white, or Passionate Red, or whatever. While tan, grey, and black are easy sales I think Lexus customers would at least like the option of knowing that others exist.

My point is that I know first hand, like you said, that Lexus customers are safe and typically want that beige leather with red/brown wood. However, alabaster and camel are just a few shades away from cashmere up or down the color scale. Same goes for woods- some are a tad more brown, a little darker, or a little lighter than others. I am not necessarily saying we need red leather like the SC Neiman Marcus available across the line, but I think that Camel/Espresso, Alabaster/Dark Ash, Black/Black, etc would be easily welcome in the eyes of a car buyer who didn't know any different. To an enthusiast, that color combination might be the difference between a 3 and an IS, or a GS and an E. This is really a win/win. Yes, saddle and red- maybe less so in smaller quantities and special editions, but at least make them available.

As you noted Mike, dealers will have to set this up to customers. When they ask for tan, ask if they want a lighter tan (Alabaster), medium tan (cashmere) or a richer tan (Camel). They will have to let people know that these things exist because historically on IS, ES, RX, and GS...they haven't! Additionally it would require some increased marketing effors on behalf of Lexus to show commercials or advertisements with new interior colors...something for people to walk into dealers and say, "I saw this black interior and it had black wood. Do you have one like that in stock?"

All in all you bring up a good point about the disconnect between HQ<----Dealers<---->Consumers.

RON430

Interiors have workmanship issues as well as look and feel. Most of what I see here is related to look. I was surprised at the total lack of sound deadening in the doors of the 2k1 and 2k3 GS but that was actually easily rectified. But I am constantly aware of the reduction in the quality feel of the new GS interior when I get in one. In my GS the plastics have a softer, more luxurious feel but there is really no give to them. The structure of the panels and materials is rock solid, that carved from a single piece feel. In the current GS, the plastics are harder and when I do put weight on them, on the top of the door for example, I notice it yielding. There might be all sorts of great engineering and CAD issues about why this is better but it sure doesn't feel like an improvement let alone expensive or luxurious.

Threxx

I can see what you're saying about the 2GS interior materials having a more susbstantial/thick/solid yet plush feeling to them than the 3GS, and yet I'd take the 3GS interior over the 2GS interior in a heart beat... much nicer and way more modern.

I added quite a bit of sound deadenign to my 99 GS400 including in the doors and yes I noticed there was little or no sound deadening in there UNLESS there was some sort of sound deadening property to the material they used to make the skin of the door?

If you took the door off an LS would it look different inside? Would you find sound deadening material? I mean the GS is already a fairly quiet car... the LS is even quieter. So you have to imagine that if the doors were an efficient place for sound deadening to go, they'd have put some there.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

No I certainly agree with what you're saying. The first problem has been a regression in interior quality and workmanship over previous models. The other problem is the general lack of options, colors, and textures available.

RON430

Interiors are also subjective. I won't take the 3GS interior over the 2GS which is why I won't shop it. Just don't like it compared to the 2GS. Your comment leads me to believe that what you like about the current interior is what I refer to as "look", more modern. That isn't a particularly big issue to me in fact, I think the look of the 2GS is a classic in interiors. Maybe one of the best ever. Everything I am looking at now will have either a million buttons or some dumba$$ computer control to do nothing particularly better than my 2GS interior does right now.

Whatever sound deadening there is in the 2GS is in the inner liner. Don't know about the LS but the electronics thread would be the place to find out.

Final comment, the 2GS is definitely not a quiet car for its range IMO. My wife was so upset with hers after a couple of days, she took it back to Lexus. They wouldn't take it back but said that yes it was noisy but that is because it is the "sporty" lexus and she should have gotten an LS or ES if she wanted quiet. They did swap the tires which helped. Haven't lived with an LS but I have lived for eight years with my GS and six with my wife's and I don't find the GS to be a very quiet car. I have gone through lots of tires on my car which isn't a fault of the GS but as modern tires wear they get noisier and the 2GS has such poor noise insulation that they quickly drive me nuts. But take it with a grain of salt. Like many people here who were Lexus owners, I won't be replacing my Lexus with another Lexus and my wife has indicated she won't as well. Just different strokes for different folks.

Threxx

Strange. I remember how distinctly noisier it always was when I had an ES300 or ES330 (always 2002-2005) loaner car from my dealer. There was also a very obvious lack of solidity in the ES. It just felt like a much thinner and flimsier car from the chassis itself to the trim and noise insulation.

Then again I had every chassis brace you could buy for the GS plus added about 50 pounds of my own noise insulation all over so maybe I just forgot what the car drove like after all that.

Still almost anytime somebody rode in my car the first thing they'd note was how silent everything was. Some people even said too silent. When I first bought it, it had terrible 50 dollar tires on it... I replaced those with much nicer tires and that helped a ton.

The GS was nowhere near as quiet as the LS, sure, but in my experience it was the second quietest car (or SUV) Lexus made.