Test Drove IS C and HS Today
05-17-09, 01:49 PM
#31
Pole Position
Props on the seats even if I don't like them they are at least an attempt at something other than the same old thing.
IS C only looks good with the top down IMO. I don't mind the USB being offered as choice is good.
The F-Sport wheels and brakes IMO look terrible on the car. With some other wheels it could be decent (with top down) but I don't think those work at all.
All those pics of the HS are why enforcing embargoes is moronic once the public has a chance to touch cars. Toyota gains *nothing* by not having professional pics released at this point.
On the HS... well what else can I say. It looks best in dark (black) colors as it hides a lot. The interior isn't too bad looking with a couple of cheap bits. The clear tails are awful. I continue to hate the wheel gap and the large "flat" fender (see posting from long ago on my hate of that trend though it appears most linked pics are gone though GFerg captures it.)
IS C only looks good with the top down IMO. I don't mind the USB being offered as choice is good.
The F-Sport wheels and brakes IMO look terrible on the car. With some other wheels it could be decent (with top down) but I don't think those work at all.
All those pics of the HS are why enforcing embargoes is moronic once the public has a chance to touch cars. Toyota gains *nothing* by not having professional pics released at this point.
On the HS... well what else can I say. It looks best in dark (black) colors as it hides a lot. The interior isn't too bad looking with a couple of cheap bits. The clear tails are awful. I continue to hate the wheel gap and the large "flat" fender (see posting from long ago on my hate of that trend though it appears most linked pics are gone though GFerg captures it.)
05-17-09, 03:55 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
The third-gen Prius put the shift lever back on the console (where it belongs, IMO). I wish the HS had also done so....I'm surprised it didn't.
Nice pictures, BTW.
See my PM. 
05-17-09, 04:31 PM
#36
First Impressions: Lexus IS350 Convertible test drive...
I used to own an IS350. I now own an SC430. I have wondered how the IS350c fit in between the two models (which I will use as basis for my comparisons in this review). After test driving the IS350C earlier today at a Lexus Drive Event at Pelican Hill Resort in Newport Beach, many of my questions have been answered.
EXTERIOR: The IS convertible has the same quality material and paint finish as a regular IS sedan. There were 17" and 18" graphite-finish wheels available on the cars; both of which were aesthetically pleasing: not too busy and not too dull. As some may know, the sedan and convertible share the same headlights. Round fog lights were surrounded by a chrome ring, which matches the chrome within headlights. The wide LED taillights were bright and prominent, and much better designed than the IS sedan as well as the current LED taillights of the SC430. In fact, the taillights had many horizontal strips of LEDs, similar to that of the LS460.
For the most part, people have complained about the C-pillar and trunk bluge. I believe that although it may not flow as smoothly as the roofline of the sedan, it does serve important functions. One, the oddly shaped C-pillar of the IS convertible helps provide better rear-passenger headroom. And two, it allows that part of the folding roof to fit better into the trunk, as a more curvaceous panel will require more space. The trunk bulge is prominent, and is most observable right below the rear center brake light. This is common for most hardtop convertibles, but the IS' protrudes much more due to fancier mechanisms (the roof has eight motors, from what I heard) and safety sensors (more than 30 safety sensors, from what I heard).
HARDTOP: The power convertible top is quick, taking about 21 seconds to fully open/close. In comparison, the SC430 takes approximately 30 seconds. And although most soft-top convertibles can do it much faster, the hardtop is very fast.
As a safety feature, the car must be parked, the trunk lock disengaged (the button in the glove compartment), and a trunk mat must be properly placed to prevent any items in the trunk from obstructing the folding hardtop. The open/close button must be held my the driver at all times as the hardtop is stowed.
TRUNK SPACE: This surprised me. The trunk is extremely spacious with the top up; it's wide and goes deep behind the rear passenger seats, but the floor itself is a bit shallow. And although it may not be as roomy as the IS sedan, it definitely is more accessible. The trunk opening seemed wider on the convertible. However, with the top down, you are left with space for a golf bag; better than the SC430, but not by much.
Another surprise: a temporary spare tire!!! The SC430 does not have the space to supply one, but the IS convertible is able to create space for a spare. No need for expensive, rough, noisy run-flats for the IS convertible!!! This is an excellent option; it makes the IS convertible run smoother and more comfortably.
INTERIOR: Almost identical to the IS sedan, but with upgraded 6th Generation Navigation. The touch screen is the same; no nav controller like the RX (yet). All options available to the sedan is available on the convertible, with the exception of a moonroof. The driver side door panel has window control for all four windows. Unlike the SC430 which cannot roll down the rear window panels without the top being down, the IS convertible can roll all four windows up or down in any combination.
The front seats have a one-touch button that will push and fold the front seats for rear passenger access. Not very fast, but it's fully automatic. The front seats also have seat belt holders that make it convenient for grabbing the seat belts, but do impede rear passenger access when the belt is taut.
But my main joy with the interior at the (relatively) spacious back seats. Now, the SC430 basically has plush leather shelves with seat belts; the seats are nearly straight upright, with non-existent leg room. For the IS convertible, the rear seats have near identical space as the sedan. It's tight, but very sufficient. And since the convertible is a four-seater, the rear seats have a comfortable and deep bucket seat design that cradles the passengers, whereas the sedan has relatively no side bolsters. Pair that with slippery leather, and you'll find passengers gliding across the rear bench during enthusiastic turns (which happened plenty of times when I had my IS350).
ENGINE, ACCELERATION, AND GAS MILEAGE: Both the sedan and convertible share the same 2.5 and 3.5 liter engines, and tuned identically, with the same drivetrain options. I test drove the IS350 convertible, and compared to the IS350 sedan, the convertible does struggle a bit with the extra weight (the sedan is about 3400 lbs, the convertible is about 3800 lbs.)
I guesstimate that the convertible can pull 0-60 mph at about 5.8 to 6.0 seconds. Not bad, but not sedan good. It's a little sacrifice, but with the rush of air while driving top down, you "feel" as if you're going much faster.
Compared to the SC430 (which weighs about 3800 lbs also, and has similar horsepower at 288 hp), the IS350 is faster and more enthusiastic. The SC430's transmission is smooth and buttery, whereas the IS350 is (of course) aggressive and sometimes jarring. They truly do act with different demeanor.
Gas mileage on the SC430 is about 18-19 mpg combined. Coming from the sedan, I guesstimate that the IS350 convertible will probably get about 21-22 mpg. Not that big of a difference, but an efficient & powerful V6 trumps an old & heavy V8.
NOISE: Now, when you're driving a convertible, wind noise is inevitable.
However, with the top up and windows up, the cabin is very calm and quiet. Basically the same as the sedan. In fact, you cannot hear any wind noise at the articulating joints of the windshield and hardtop. With the top up and windows down, there is little "throbbing" within the cabin. From my experience between the sedan and convertible, the convertible has less cabin wind turbulence than the sedan! Another surprise that made me smile!
ROAD FEEL AND HANDLING: Another concern for most sedan owners. The extra weight and altered body weight distribution has been a topic of debate in the past few months.
Well, let me tell you: worry no more. The convertible is admittedly heavy, but the suspension has been adjusted to accommodate the extra weight. Because of this modification, the IS convertible handles just as well as the sedan! I was impressed! Cornering is confident, braking is efficient. The SC430 is very lofty and soft, with spongy initial braking; this is because the SC430 is made to cruise plushly. The IS convertible has a different mindset, offering confident handling while being comfortable at the same time.
I do have to admit that these turns were not done at racing speeds. However, most of these turns were done between 20 to 50 mph, which is what most people will do in everyday driving. Unless if you are racing your car, the IS convertible is very sufficient. Much better than the SC430, but cannot be pushed quite like the sedan.
Another thing: the IS convertible has F-Sport options available. If you really really want to make the IS-C handle exceptionally well, there will be expensive dealer-installed options that will be full covered under warranty.
PRICE: An '09 SC430 is about $70k. A similarly loaded (and in fact, the IS will have more bells and whistles) '10 IS350C will be about $50k.
For $20k less, the IS350C is an excellent bargain compared to the SC430. It may not exude the luxurious breath of the SC430 when it was released 9 years ago, but it does provide the same frivolity and enjoyment, with a lot more sport performance and handling, better rear passenger room, more trunk space, better gas mileage, and better technology.
But compared to the IS350 sedan, the IS350C does have justifiable reason to be about $7k more. The modified suspension, the modified body rigidity, the improved safety features, as well as the droptop option; all make the IS350C worth the extra premium. Convertibles may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the IS350C delivers in many ways.
MY OVERALL IMPRESSION: I like the IS convertible better than my IS350 sedan.
The reason: it's the IS sedan with better options, better Navigation, and better technology; not to mention the inevitable golden tan that you'll get.
However, I still like my SC430 better. Some people have commented that SC430 owners to not cross-shop between the IS350C. Let me prove them wrong: I cross-shopped between the two cars. I love the IS350's technology, efficiency, power, and handling. But, in my case, I truly do prefer a laid-back luxury cruiser instead of an aggressive sports sedan. It may not be for everyone; but I love the plush comfort, exterior design, old-school luxury, and relative exclusivity.
EXTERIOR: The IS convertible has the same quality material and paint finish as a regular IS sedan. There were 17" and 18" graphite-finish wheels available on the cars; both of which were aesthetically pleasing: not too busy and not too dull. As some may know, the sedan and convertible share the same headlights. Round fog lights were surrounded by a chrome ring, which matches the chrome within headlights. The wide LED taillights were bright and prominent, and much better designed than the IS sedan as well as the current LED taillights of the SC430. In fact, the taillights had many horizontal strips of LEDs, similar to that of the LS460.
For the most part, people have complained about the C-pillar and trunk bluge. I believe that although it may not flow as smoothly as the roofline of the sedan, it does serve important functions. One, the oddly shaped C-pillar of the IS convertible helps provide better rear-passenger headroom. And two, it allows that part of the folding roof to fit better into the trunk, as a more curvaceous panel will require more space. The trunk bulge is prominent, and is most observable right below the rear center brake light. This is common for most hardtop convertibles, but the IS' protrudes much more due to fancier mechanisms (the roof has eight motors, from what I heard) and safety sensors (more than 30 safety sensors, from what I heard).
HARDTOP: The power convertible top is quick, taking about 21 seconds to fully open/close. In comparison, the SC430 takes approximately 30 seconds. And although most soft-top convertibles can do it much faster, the hardtop is very fast.
As a safety feature, the car must be parked, the trunk lock disengaged (the button in the glove compartment), and a trunk mat must be properly placed to prevent any items in the trunk from obstructing the folding hardtop. The open/close button must be held my the driver at all times as the hardtop is stowed.
TRUNK SPACE: This surprised me. The trunk is extremely spacious with the top up; it's wide and goes deep behind the rear passenger seats, but the floor itself is a bit shallow. And although it may not be as roomy as the IS sedan, it definitely is more accessible. The trunk opening seemed wider on the convertible. However, with the top down, you are left with space for a golf bag; better than the SC430, but not by much.
Another surprise: a temporary spare tire!!! The SC430 does not have the space to supply one, but the IS convertible is able to create space for a spare. No need for expensive, rough, noisy run-flats for the IS convertible!!! This is an excellent option; it makes the IS convertible run smoother and more comfortably.
INTERIOR: Almost identical to the IS sedan, but with upgraded 6th Generation Navigation. The touch screen is the same; no nav controller like the RX (yet). All options available to the sedan is available on the convertible, with the exception of a moonroof. The driver side door panel has window control for all four windows. Unlike the SC430 which cannot roll down the rear window panels without the top being down, the IS convertible can roll all four windows up or down in any combination.
The front seats have a one-touch button that will push and fold the front seats for rear passenger access. Not very fast, but it's fully automatic. The front seats also have seat belt holders that make it convenient for grabbing the seat belts, but do impede rear passenger access when the belt is taut.
But my main joy with the interior at the (relatively) spacious back seats. Now, the SC430 basically has plush leather shelves with seat belts; the seats are nearly straight upright, with non-existent leg room. For the IS convertible, the rear seats have near identical space as the sedan. It's tight, but very sufficient. And since the convertible is a four-seater, the rear seats have a comfortable and deep bucket seat design that cradles the passengers, whereas the sedan has relatively no side bolsters. Pair that with slippery leather, and you'll find passengers gliding across the rear bench during enthusiastic turns (which happened plenty of times when I had my IS350).
ENGINE, ACCELERATION, AND GAS MILEAGE: Both the sedan and convertible share the same 2.5 and 3.5 liter engines, and tuned identically, with the same drivetrain options. I test drove the IS350 convertible, and compared to the IS350 sedan, the convertible does struggle a bit with the extra weight (the sedan is about 3400 lbs, the convertible is about 3800 lbs.)
I guesstimate that the convertible can pull 0-60 mph at about 5.8 to 6.0 seconds. Not bad, but not sedan good. It's a little sacrifice, but with the rush of air while driving top down, you "feel" as if you're going much faster.
Compared to the SC430 (which weighs about 3800 lbs also, and has similar horsepower at 288 hp), the IS350 is faster and more enthusiastic. The SC430's transmission is smooth and buttery, whereas the IS350 is (of course) aggressive and sometimes jarring. They truly do act with different demeanor.
Gas mileage on the SC430 is about 18-19 mpg combined. Coming from the sedan, I guesstimate that the IS350 convertible will probably get about 21-22 mpg. Not that big of a difference, but an efficient & powerful V6 trumps an old & heavy V8.
NOISE: Now, when you're driving a convertible, wind noise is inevitable.
However, with the top up and windows up, the cabin is very calm and quiet. Basically the same as the sedan. In fact, you cannot hear any wind noise at the articulating joints of the windshield and hardtop. With the top up and windows down, there is little "throbbing" within the cabin. From my experience between the sedan and convertible, the convertible has less cabin wind turbulence than the sedan! Another surprise that made me smile!
ROAD FEEL AND HANDLING: Another concern for most sedan owners. The extra weight and altered body weight distribution has been a topic of debate in the past few months.
Well, let me tell you: worry no more. The convertible is admittedly heavy, but the suspension has been adjusted to accommodate the extra weight. Because of this modification, the IS convertible handles just as well as the sedan! I was impressed! Cornering is confident, braking is efficient. The SC430 is very lofty and soft, with spongy initial braking; this is because the SC430 is made to cruise plushly. The IS convertible has a different mindset, offering confident handling while being comfortable at the same time.
I do have to admit that these turns were not done at racing speeds. However, most of these turns were done between 20 to 50 mph, which is what most people will do in everyday driving. Unless if you are racing your car, the IS convertible is very sufficient. Much better than the SC430, but cannot be pushed quite like the sedan.
Another thing: the IS convertible has F-Sport options available. If you really really want to make the IS-C handle exceptionally well, there will be expensive dealer-installed options that will be full covered under warranty.
PRICE: An '09 SC430 is about $70k. A similarly loaded (and in fact, the IS will have more bells and whistles) '10 IS350C will be about $50k.
For $20k less, the IS350C is an excellent bargain compared to the SC430. It may not exude the luxurious breath of the SC430 when it was released 9 years ago, but it does provide the same frivolity and enjoyment, with a lot more sport performance and handling, better rear passenger room, more trunk space, better gas mileage, and better technology.
But compared to the IS350 sedan, the IS350C does have justifiable reason to be about $7k more. The modified suspension, the modified body rigidity, the improved safety features, as well as the droptop option; all make the IS350C worth the extra premium. Convertibles may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the IS350C delivers in many ways.
MY OVERALL IMPRESSION: I like the IS convertible better than my IS350 sedan.
The reason: it's the IS sedan with better options, better Navigation, and better technology; not to mention the inevitable golden tan that you'll get.
However, I still like my SC430 better. Some people have commented that SC430 owners to not cross-shop between the IS350C. Let me prove them wrong: I cross-shopped between the two cars. I love the IS350's technology, efficiency, power, and handling. But, in my case, I truly do prefer a laid-back luxury cruiser instead of an aggressive sports sedan. It may not be for everyone; but I love the plush comfort, exterior design, old-school luxury, and relative exclusivity.
05-17-09, 05:33 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Great write-up, Phil. You brought up some good points, especially about the temporary spare. I'm a firm believer that a Lexus-grade car should have a real spare (like my 2001 IS300 did), not a temporary one, but, given the inherent limitations in trunk space with a folding-top, I agree that a temporary spare beats run-flat tires.
Does that mean that there will be an IS250 convertible? 
The Lexus people were a little unclear about that at the D.C. Auto Show in Feburary.
This may or may not be a transmision ECU problem, Some of the first-generation IS300 models (and ES330 models) had occasionally quirky shift characeristics from problems with the transmission's ECU. The IS300's automatic transmission was a little harsh when cold, but smooth as butter when warmed up....smoother than on some Buicks I've driven. Lexus worked on the ECU problem, though, for years, and never really got it right. Some of that could (?) have been carried over into new models. I don't remember the second-generation IS350 sedan's transmission I drove a while back being that rough-shifting, though.
For several reasons, it's hard to get good-looking C-pillars in a convertible. Most convertibles, it is generally agreed on, look better with the top down than they do up.
That extra 400 lbs comes from a number of sources.....electric motors, relays, sensors, hinges, hardware, tonneau covers, etc.... but the main part of it, of course, is the extra bracing required in the frame/chassis to compensate for the loss of structural rigidity with the top down. That helps prevent what is known as "cowl flex", "chassis flex", or "cowl shake", usually most noticeable in the steering column and windshield A-pillars. Most convertibles today are much more resistant to that than convertibles from the past, but virtually all of them, outside of $100,000+ Mercedes jobs, have some vibration/shake, if only in amall amounts, especially on rough roads. How much of that did you notice in the IS350 convertible, if any?
Once again, nice write-up. Keep up the good work.
You brought up some good points, especially about the temporary spare. I'm a firm believer that a Lexus-grade car should have a real spare (like my 2001 IS300 did), not a temporary one, but, given the inherent limitations in trunk space with a folding-top, I agree that a temporary spare beats run-flat tires.
Both the sedan and convertible share the same 2.5 and 3.5 liter engines, and tuned identically, with the same drivetrain options.
The Lexus people were a little unclear about that at the D.C. Auto Show in Feburary.
The SC430's transmission is smooth and buttery, whereas the IS350 is (of course) aggressive and sometimes jarring. They truly do act with different demeanor.
For the most part, people have complained about the C-pillar and trunk bluge. I believe that although it may not flow as smoothly as the roofline of the sedan, it does serve important functions.
I test drove the IS350 convertible, and compared to the IS350 sedan, the convertible does struggle a bit with the extra weight (the sedan is about 3400 lbs, the convertible is about 3800 lbs.)
Once again, nice write-up. Keep up the good work.
05-17-09, 05:36 PM
#39
I'm glad to report that the IS had very little cowl shake. Even when Phil was flogging it (I was sitting in the relatively roomy back seat) it seemed to drive pretty close to the sedan. And yes there will be a 250C. I want to see how it handles the extra weight though...
I drove the non F-Sport IS-C and it was an overall nice ride. I drove it like I do my own 350 when commuting (i.e. sanely and mindful to MPG) and the ISC actually seemed smoother.
I drove the non F-Sport IS-C and it was an overall nice ride. I drove it like I do my own 350 when commuting (i.e. sanely and mindful to MPG) and the ISC actually seemed smoother.
Last edited by Allen K; 05-17-09 at 05:41 PM.
05-17-09, 05:38 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
IS-C does look better in darker colors. I like the blue leather seats, maybe IN the blue car, not the silver/beige one.
Have to take the G/F to see them in person.....Thing is, its the same price as a really good used SC 430..
I am so happy to see Lexus push the F-sport parts
Have to take the G/F to see them in person.....Thing is, its the same price as a really good used SC 430..
I am so happy to see Lexus push the F-sport parts
05-17-09, 05:46 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
I'm glad to report that the IS had very little cowl shake. Even when Phil was flogging it (I was sitting in the relatively roomy back seat) it seemed to drive pretty close to the sedan. And yes there will be a 250C. I want to see how it handles the extra weight though...
If you want to get an idea of how an IS250 handles extra weight, just take an existing IS250 AWD model out for a spin. The AWD hardware adds a few hundred extra pounds (probably not quite as much as the convertible), and will more or less simulate the same acceleration and braking, although, of course, the handling will be different with AWD. I can tell you, though, from my review experience, that IS250 AWDs, like the normally-aspirated 2.5L AWD models from Subaru with similiar-size engines, are somewhat sluggish...you will definitely notice a big difference from the IS350 RWD.
05-17-09, 05:52 PM
#43
Nah Phil did the review I'm just playing guest presenter 
Good tip on finding a 250 AWD, although it would be rather difficult to find one in California. I did have a 250 loaner for a few days when I had the fuel line recall done and it was very smooth. Sure I had to plan my lane changes a bit more in advance, but it wasn't too bad But, like you said, it was a bit sluggish.
Good tip on finding a 250 AWD, although it would be rather difficult to find one in California. I did have a 250 loaner for a few days when I had the fuel line recall done and it was very smooth. Sure I had to plan my lane changes a bit more in advance, but it wasn't too bad But, like you said, it was a bit sluggish.
05-17-09, 06:06 PM
#44
Thanks bud! I learned from the best... 
If you aggressively push the car, and especially in Sport Mode, the shift changes are jumpy. Driven more conservatively, the transmission is refined.
Ultimately, the IS350 is not buttery smooth like the SC430. My SC has a 5-speed, and it glides with no jerkiness. The IS's 6-speed can pull a lot harder, causing self-induced whiplash. Some like that, some don't...
Yup. Convertibles will have that design flaw, especially hardtops. Eventually, the roof has to go somewhere...
This was one of my biggest concerns prior to test driving the car.
I pushed the car during my test drive to examine it. I was quite happy with the result. The convertible did not have that cowl flex; it was firm compared to the sedan. I'm pretty sure that when really pushed in a race track, the cowl flex will be prominent. However, for everyday driving, Lexus did a great job in stabilizing the car.
Also, F-Sport options such as chassis braces and sway bars will be available. That will nearly eliminate such issues for more aggressive drivers.
I'll do an HS250h review by tomorrow.
Ultimately, the IS350 is not buttery smooth like the SC430. My SC has a 5-speed, and it glides with no jerkiness. The IS's 6-speed can pull a lot harder, causing self-induced whiplash. Some like that, some don't...
That extra 400 lbs comes from a number of sources.....electric motors, relays, sensors, hinges, hardware, tonneau covers, etc.... but the main part of it, of course, is the extra bracing required in the frame/chassis to compensate for the loss of structural rigidity with the top down. That helps prevent what is known as "cowl flex", "chassis flex", or "cowl shake", usually most noticeable in the steering column and windshield A-pillars.
How much of that did you notice in the IS350 convertible, if any?
How much of that did you notice in the IS350 convertible, if any?
I pushed the car during my test drive to examine it. I was quite happy with the result. The convertible did not have that cowl flex; it was firm compared to the sedan. I'm pretty sure that when really pushed in a race track, the cowl flex will be prominent. However, for everyday driving, Lexus did a great job in stabilizing the car.
Also, F-Sport options such as chassis braces and sway bars will be available. That will nearly eliminate such issues for more aggressive drivers.
I'll do an HS250h review by tomorrow.
05-17-09, 06:10 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Trexus-oh, your G/F is the best looking thing in this thread Thanks for the review!!!
Mr. Johnson-the thing with split spokes is they do show those big brakes (and if I drove 5k on them, I do want you to see them
) but they do look horrible on slab sided or big bodied cars. It seems fine on the IS (more compact) but just too "think" on the GS/ and IS-C.
I also hate the manifold up front like that. I do like it in black and I'm happy to see some more "two-tone" seats in the HS.
Honestly if I EVER did FWD again, it would be either a Mini or a hybrid so the HS contiues to intrique me.
Thanks for the review!!!Mr. Johnson-the thing with split spokes is they do show those big brakes (and if I drove 5k on them, I do want you to see them
) but they do look horrible on slab sided or big bodied cars. It seems fine on the IS (more compact) but just too "think" on the GS/ and IS-C. I also hate the manifold up front like that. I do like it in black and I'm happy to see some more "two-tone" seats in the HS.
Honestly if I EVER did FWD again, it would be either a Mini or a hybrid so the HS contiues to intrique me.