Test Drove IS C and HS Today
05-17-09, 06:10 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
05-17-09, 06:29 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
I know you have had enough girl friends to be the voice of experience, right? 
Check out the Mini Clubman report I just posted in CAR CHAT.
Honestly if I EVER did FWD again, it would be either a Mini or a hybrid so the HS contiues to intrique me.
05-17-09, 06:30 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
05-17-09, 08:35 PM
#52
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Big 
to Lexus for starting to offer more wild color combinations. While a lot of people will be polarized by that blue interior option, I think it looks dazzling and really adds a lot of style to the car. The more interior and exterior color options Lexus offers, the better.
to Lexus for starting to offer more wild color combinations. While a lot of people will be polarized by that blue interior option, I think it looks dazzling and really adds a lot of style to the car. The more interior and exterior color options Lexus offers, the better.
05-17-09, 09:33 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Big to Lexus for starting to offer more wild color combinations. While a lot of people will be polarized by that blue interior option, I think it looks dazzling and really adds a lot of style to the car. The more interior and exterior color options Lexus offers, the better.
to Lexus for starting to offer more wild color combinations. While a lot of people will be polarized by that blue interior option, I think it looks dazzling and really adds a lot of style to the car. The more interior and exterior color options Lexus offers, the better.
05-17-09, 11:30 PM
#54
First Impressions: Lexus HS250h hybrid test drive...
First and foremost, I am not a hybrid fan. Two main reasons: the first being that most hybrids (even Lexus' performance-enhancing hybrids) are not sporty enough to excite me, and second being that the premium price upgrade ultimately is not worth the gas/cost savings (especially when they are driven sportily instead of conservatively).
However, being that I was about to test drive the HS250h, I had to look at the car under a different light. During my test drive, I drove it like how a typical hybrid hyper-miler driver would: not slow, but easily and gently to evoke the purpose of a hybrid drivetrain. No sudden accelerations, lots of coasting, and easy braking.
Not only did I drive the car like a hybrid car should be driven, but I had to take a look at how the hybrid car was built. The HS250h is made of about 70% recycleable material, and some of the parts of the car are actually reused recycled material!!! The HS represents a new "lifestyle" vehicle that addresses not how a car rides, but how a car is produced.
EXTERIOR: The HS250h will not win the hearts of many enthusiasts nor designers, but does address an important aspect in hybrid design: it does not look like any hybrid out there. It does not look like a Prius or Insight. It does not look like a Camry or Fusion. The HS250h is an original conservative design made with space efficiency and aerodynamics in mind.
From the front, there is minimal sloping of the sides of the car from the floor to the roofline. By doing so, the HS maximizes hip and shoulder width, making a relatively small car spacious (think of how "wide" the xB is, even though it's a compact car). The rear seats can comfortably seat three adults in the back, thanks to the lack of a middle hump due to its front wheel drive. The grill, headlight, and air dam designs are strikingly bold for a conservative car; I think it will appeal to hybrid buyers that want a signature "face" without the car being too overdone.
Most aesthetic complaints come from the side profile. The hood is a bit bulbous and tall, giving the car a squat appearance. The 17" double-seven spoke wheels are a bit busy for such a plain car, and the wheels tucked away from the corners of the car, creating too much visual overhang in the front. The roofline is tall for plenty of front and rear passenger headroom, but sacrifices the sleek sloping lines of L-Finesse when compared to the IS and GS models. Because of the tall roofline, the front and rear windshields are blunt and angled, creating an odd A-Pillar and C-Pillar, with those awkward triangular windows that seem out of place.
Finally, from the rear, the car is quite plain, with the exception of the taillights, which I find to be another eyesore. The LED taillights are well lit and very visible, but I would have preferred a regular red-lensed taillight instead of clear ones. I was mentioning to others in the test drive facility that I would probably do red-out overlays if I get the chance...
TRUNK SPACE: Befitting a Lexus hybrid, the trunk is compromised, but not as bad as the GS450h nor Camry hybrid. The trunk is deep and wide, but not too long into the rear seats due to the batteries. Also, no pass through nor folding seats, so that may be an issue for certain items. The trunk opening is similar to the IS; I think it's too small of an opening for an average sized trunk. Useful for everyday storage such as trips to the grocery store, but not that useful for going to hardware stores for bigger purchases.
INTERIOR: This is where the HS250h excels in many ways.
Now, I know that most people have complained about how plain the interior of the car is, from unimaginative door panels to Pep-Boys-style leather seat covers. I have to recommend one to take a step back and analyze the materials used: recycleable materials, lightweight and gas efficient textiles, minimal heavy wood trim, etc. The HS was purposely built for efficiency, not drama. She's a practical tennis shoe, not a stiletto.
The seats are comfortable and soft; not bolstered and supported like an IS, and not quite as plush as the ES350. The driver dash, center console, and elbow rest are sparingly padded with leather; which is a bit visually awkward, but nice to the touch. Wood adds visual interest, but is very minimal, like an afterthought. I would have loved to see the HS with a wood and leather steering wheel, and I hope it can be an option in the future.
The technology of the HS is vastly superb. You can find amenities on the HS that has only been offered on an LS460 and LX570: front view camera, heads-up display, lane departure assist, driver monitoring system, etc. Almost all amenities found on any other Lexus model can be found on the HS. The new Navigation "mouse" is very intuitive and easy to use, and kept my eyes on the road as I changed everything from audio to climate to nav controls and commands. The HS was designed around the driver; the HS was not designed for the on-looker. To appreciate the HS, one must sit behind the wheel, not stand outside the car...
Another big find: Lexus personalized settings are now available for the driver. From the time it takes to keep all the lights on, to how loud door chimes ring, to the ability of disabling the DRLs: personalized settings are easier to change for different driver preferences. I hated the idea of going to the dealer to change one thing here and there, and I'm happy that this little change is now controllable.
HYBRID TECHNOLOGY: Let me get some things straight: No, this is not a Lexus-badged Prius. No, this is not a Lexus-badged Camry. This is purely and originally an HS250h. This does not have the pretension of a GS450h nor an LS600h. It stands alone.
The engine and hybrid drivetrain is unique, and offers plenty of "personalization" when it comes to driving it. There is an ECO mode, a Hybrid mode, and a Sport mode; all of which determine how the engine will balance/pair with the hybrid system. I can see most consumers of the HS will use the ECO mode for heavy traffic, and the Hybrid mode for open cruising. I highly doubt that HS buyers will use the Sport mode at all, and even if they did, it wouldn't be too sporty to benefit from it.
ENGINE, ACCELERATION, AND GAS MILEAGE: The 2.4L engine paired with the hybrid battery is sufficient for this car.
The car is not speedy, nor is it slow. Acceleration is good; I would compare it to an IS250, but a bit slower. About 8 seconds from zero to 60 mph. Not bad, but it doesn't function to be faster.
Gas mileage has been estimated to be about 35 mpg, which is nothing spectacular compared to the new Prius. But compared to an entry-level IS250 (26 mph combined) or ES350 (23 mpg combined), the HS is very very efficient for hauling 5 passengers with lots of comfort and plenty more cabin space.
NOISE: This was a mixed bag depending on the drivers I spoke with.
I felt that the engine was not noisy at all; it was very quiet in hybrid mode, and the engine did sound strained when pushed. Some other drivers complained that it was too noisy, and that the engine struggled with audible effort. I guess this depends on the driver's driving habits, as well as the total weight of passengers inside the car.
The tires and road noise was unacceptable for the car. The tires had an audible hum/drone as it coasted on open roads. I think this can be remedied with smaller wheels and wider tires, and by using softer compounds instead of sport touring tires (which was used in the pre-production models). This can be addressed with aftermarket choices, but I think Lexus should look into smaller wheel options for the base model.
ROAD FEEL AND HANDLING: Like I first said in the beginning of this review, I drove it slowly, easily, and gently to evoke the purpose of a hybrid drivetrain.
The car is actually confident with turns at low speeds, and rides much better than the ES350, with less body roll and understeer. This car is far behind the handling capabilities of an IS250, and I think that no HS buyer will be looking for performance that exceeds the IS.
Braking was not superb, but it can be better. The brakes were not spongy; they grabbed when you initially press the pedal, better than the ES350. However, the brakes can use a little more grabbing power. It would benefit from the same brake feel of the IS250. Again, I doubt that HS buyers will gun and jump the accelerator, nor would they do sudden braking. The HS is a "coasting cruiser", and will stop the car efficiently with conservative defensive driving.
PRICE: The HS250h will fall near $35k, between an IS250 and ES350, making a triple threat entry-level sweep. One car for performance, one car for gas efficiency, and one car for (numb) comfort.
But because of its technological options, I can see the HS creeping well into the high $40s due to the sophisticated amenities and electronics. Like other Lexus hybrids, I doubt that consumers are looking into saving money and gas when purchasing the HS250h. However, the idea and functionality of an gas-efficient eco-friendly hybrid made of recycled and recycleable materials with plenty of space and luxury is finally available.
No other hybrid on the road can provide the overall package that the HS can provide.
MY OVERALL IMPRESSION: What can I say, I don't like hybrids. But do I like the HS250h? I can say that I am underwhelmed.
The car's ideology is eco-wholesomeness. The car is gas efficient, space efficient, environmentally enlightened, and paired with utmost luxury and technology. It has Prius efficiency, Camry performance, LS460 technology, and IS250 pricing.
And that's the problem: the HS250h works hard to get the best of everything, and ultimately does not excel as a whole. It's a jack of all trades, yet the final outcome is a bit unremarkable.
Perhaps I am over-indulgent: I like it fast, I like it spectacular, I like to put on a show. The HS does not function in this manner. The HS was made to appeal to a different consumer that wants it easy, wants it simple, and wants to cruise for 500 miles with one tank of gas.
If the HS250h succeeds, it will do so by appealing to the type of driver that wants a bit of everything, without being superb at one thing alone. Because ClubLexus is an enthusiasts' forum, I doubt we'll find many who will warm up to the HS. Nonetheless, I think many will find the HS to be sufficient for their needs, without inter-make competition between Lexus' other entry-level models.
However, being that I was about to test drive the HS250h, I had to look at the car under a different light. During my test drive, I drove it like how a typical hybrid hyper-miler driver would: not slow, but easily and gently to evoke the purpose of a hybrid drivetrain. No sudden accelerations, lots of coasting, and easy braking.
Not only did I drive the car like a hybrid car should be driven, but I had to take a look at how the hybrid car was built. The HS250h is made of about 70% recycleable material, and some of the parts of the car are actually reused recycled material!!! The HS represents a new "lifestyle" vehicle that addresses not how a car rides, but how a car is produced.
EXTERIOR: The HS250h will not win the hearts of many enthusiasts nor designers, but does address an important aspect in hybrid design: it does not look like any hybrid out there. It does not look like a Prius or Insight. It does not look like a Camry or Fusion. The HS250h is an original conservative design made with space efficiency and aerodynamics in mind.
From the front, there is minimal sloping of the sides of the car from the floor to the roofline. By doing so, the HS maximizes hip and shoulder width, making a relatively small car spacious (think of how "wide" the xB is, even though it's a compact car). The rear seats can comfortably seat three adults in the back, thanks to the lack of a middle hump due to its front wheel drive. The grill, headlight, and air dam designs are strikingly bold for a conservative car; I think it will appeal to hybrid buyers that want a signature "face" without the car being too overdone.
Most aesthetic complaints come from the side profile. The hood is a bit bulbous and tall, giving the car a squat appearance. The 17" double-seven spoke wheels are a bit busy for such a plain car, and the wheels tucked away from the corners of the car, creating too much visual overhang in the front. The roofline is tall for plenty of front and rear passenger headroom, but sacrifices the sleek sloping lines of L-Finesse when compared to the IS and GS models. Because of the tall roofline, the front and rear windshields are blunt and angled, creating an odd A-Pillar and C-Pillar, with those awkward triangular windows that seem out of place.
Finally, from the rear, the car is quite plain, with the exception of the taillights, which I find to be another eyesore. The LED taillights are well lit and very visible, but I would have preferred a regular red-lensed taillight instead of clear ones. I was mentioning to others in the test drive facility that I would probably do red-out overlays if I get the chance...
TRUNK SPACE: Befitting a Lexus hybrid, the trunk is compromised, but not as bad as the GS450h nor Camry hybrid. The trunk is deep and wide, but not too long into the rear seats due to the batteries. Also, no pass through nor folding seats, so that may be an issue for certain items. The trunk opening is similar to the IS; I think it's too small of an opening for an average sized trunk. Useful for everyday storage such as trips to the grocery store, but not that useful for going to hardware stores for bigger purchases.
INTERIOR: This is where the HS250h excels in many ways.
Now, I know that most people have complained about how plain the interior of the car is, from unimaginative door panels to Pep-Boys-style leather seat covers. I have to recommend one to take a step back and analyze the materials used: recycleable materials, lightweight and gas efficient textiles, minimal heavy wood trim, etc. The HS was purposely built for efficiency, not drama. She's a practical tennis shoe, not a stiletto.
The seats are comfortable and soft; not bolstered and supported like an IS, and not quite as plush as the ES350. The driver dash, center console, and elbow rest are sparingly padded with leather; which is a bit visually awkward, but nice to the touch. Wood adds visual interest, but is very minimal, like an afterthought. I would have loved to see the HS with a wood and leather steering wheel, and I hope it can be an option in the future.
The technology of the HS is vastly superb. You can find amenities on the HS that has only been offered on an LS460 and LX570: front view camera, heads-up display, lane departure assist, driver monitoring system, etc. Almost all amenities found on any other Lexus model can be found on the HS. The new Navigation "mouse" is very intuitive and easy to use, and kept my eyes on the road as I changed everything from audio to climate to nav controls and commands. The HS was designed around the driver; the HS was not designed for the on-looker. To appreciate the HS, one must sit behind the wheel, not stand outside the car...
Another big find: Lexus personalized settings are now available for the driver. From the time it takes to keep all the lights on, to how loud door chimes ring, to the ability of disabling the DRLs: personalized settings are easier to change for different driver preferences. I hated the idea of going to the dealer to change one thing here and there, and I'm happy that this little change is now controllable.
HYBRID TECHNOLOGY: Let me get some things straight: No, this is not a Lexus-badged Prius. No, this is not a Lexus-badged Camry. This is purely and originally an HS250h. This does not have the pretension of a GS450h nor an LS600h. It stands alone.
The engine and hybrid drivetrain is unique, and offers plenty of "personalization" when it comes to driving it. There is an ECO mode, a Hybrid mode, and a Sport mode; all of which determine how the engine will balance/pair with the hybrid system. I can see most consumers of the HS will use the ECO mode for heavy traffic, and the Hybrid mode for open cruising. I highly doubt that HS buyers will use the Sport mode at all, and even if they did, it wouldn't be too sporty to benefit from it.
ENGINE, ACCELERATION, AND GAS MILEAGE: The 2.4L engine paired with the hybrid battery is sufficient for this car.
The car is not speedy, nor is it slow. Acceleration is good; I would compare it to an IS250, but a bit slower. About 8 seconds from zero to 60 mph. Not bad, but it doesn't function to be faster.
Gas mileage has been estimated to be about 35 mpg, which is nothing spectacular compared to the new Prius. But compared to an entry-level IS250 (26 mph combined) or ES350 (23 mpg combined), the HS is very very efficient for hauling 5 passengers with lots of comfort and plenty more cabin space.
NOISE: This was a mixed bag depending on the drivers I spoke with.
I felt that the engine was not noisy at all; it was very quiet in hybrid mode, and the engine did sound strained when pushed. Some other drivers complained that it was too noisy, and that the engine struggled with audible effort. I guess this depends on the driver's driving habits, as well as the total weight of passengers inside the car.
The tires and road noise was unacceptable for the car. The tires had an audible hum/drone as it coasted on open roads. I think this can be remedied with smaller wheels and wider tires, and by using softer compounds instead of sport touring tires (which was used in the pre-production models). This can be addressed with aftermarket choices, but I think Lexus should look into smaller wheel options for the base model.
ROAD FEEL AND HANDLING: Like I first said in the beginning of this review, I drove it slowly, easily, and gently to evoke the purpose of a hybrid drivetrain.
The car is actually confident with turns at low speeds, and rides much better than the ES350, with less body roll and understeer. This car is far behind the handling capabilities of an IS250, and I think that no HS buyer will be looking for performance that exceeds the IS.
Braking was not superb, but it can be better. The brakes were not spongy; they grabbed when you initially press the pedal, better than the ES350. However, the brakes can use a little more grabbing power. It would benefit from the same brake feel of the IS250. Again, I doubt that HS buyers will gun and jump the accelerator, nor would they do sudden braking. The HS is a "coasting cruiser", and will stop the car efficiently with conservative defensive driving.
PRICE: The HS250h will fall near $35k, between an IS250 and ES350, making a triple threat entry-level sweep. One car for performance, one car for gas efficiency, and one car for (numb) comfort.
But because of its technological options, I can see the HS creeping well into the high $40s due to the sophisticated amenities and electronics. Like other Lexus hybrids, I doubt that consumers are looking into saving money and gas when purchasing the HS250h. However, the idea and functionality of an gas-efficient eco-friendly hybrid made of recycled and recycleable materials with plenty of space and luxury is finally available.
No other hybrid on the road can provide the overall package that the HS can provide.
MY OVERALL IMPRESSION: What can I say, I don't like hybrids. But do I like the HS250h? I can say that I am underwhelmed.
The car's ideology is eco-wholesomeness. The car is gas efficient, space efficient, environmentally enlightened, and paired with utmost luxury and technology. It has Prius efficiency, Camry performance, LS460 technology, and IS250 pricing.
And that's the problem: the HS250h works hard to get the best of everything, and ultimately does not excel as a whole. It's a jack of all trades, yet the final outcome is a bit unremarkable.
Perhaps I am over-indulgent: I like it fast, I like it spectacular, I like to put on a show. The HS does not function in this manner. The HS was made to appeal to a different consumer that wants it easy, wants it simple, and wants to cruise for 500 miles with one tank of gas.
If the HS250h succeeds, it will do so by appealing to the type of driver that wants a bit of everything, without being superb at one thing alone. Because ClubLexus is an enthusiasts' forum, I doubt we'll find many who will warm up to the HS. Nonetheless, I think many will find the HS to be sufficient for their needs, without inter-make competition between Lexus' other entry-level models.
05-18-09, 06:34 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Nice write-up, Phil.....as with the IS convertible last night.
But it DOES look like a Corolla. 
Of course, that's not necessarily a bad thing in my book.....I've seen lots worse styling then Corollas.
You mean three small adults, or children, right? I assume there's no way you'll get three guys my size (6' 2"", 275 lb) comfortably back there....but I'll wait untill I see the car for myself to judge.
Like I mentioned in another HS thread, I'm surprised they put wheels like that on a car designed for high mileage and low rolling friction (same with the new Prius, which also has a 17" option)
The lack of a folding rear seat may (?) be because of battery pack interference. But the packs, in general, are more compact and space-efficient now than they were on first-generation hybrids.
Yet it is strange that they didn't put the shift lever back on the console like the new (and less expensive) third-generation Prius.
Lexus did the same thing with the original RX400H hybrid....didn't use much wood inside at first, and then changed their minds later.
Agreed. it less of an eyesore than a Prius, old or new.
As far as noise goes, the gas-engine doesn't run at all in the pure-electric mode, does it? That is one of the differences between Toyota and Honda-designed hybrid systems.
That can (?) also be cost-cutting by skimping on insulation in the wheel wells. Subaru is doing dome of the same thing with their newer cars.
Hybrids use different braking systems than regular cars, known as "regenerative" braking", which allows the electric motor to help slow the car and recharge itself in the process. That can sometimes affect the brake-pedal feel.
It does not look like a Prius or Insight. It does not look like a Camry or Fusion.
Of course, that's not necessarily a bad thing in my book.....I've seen lots worse styling then Corollas.
The rear seats can comfortably seat three adults in the back, thanks to the lack of a middle hump due to its front wheel drive.
The 17" double-seven spoke wheels are a bit busy for such a plain car,
Befitting a Lexus hybrid, the trunk is compromised, but not as bad as the GS450h nor Camry hybrid. The trunk is deep and wide, but not too long into the rear seats due to the batteries. Also, no pass through nor folding seats,
The technology of the HS is vastly superb. You can find amenities on the HS that has only been offered on an LS460 and LX570:
Wood adds visual interest, but is very minimal, like an afterthought. I would have loved to see the HS with a wood and leather steering wheel, and I hope it can be an option in the future.
Let me get some things straight: No, this is not a Lexus-badged Prius.
I felt that the engine was not noisy at all; it was very quiet in hybrid mode,
The tires and road noise was unacceptable for the car. The tires had an audible hum/drone as it coasted on open roads. I think this can be remedied with smaller wheels and wider tires, and by using softer compounds instead of sport touring tires
The brakes were not spongy; they grabbed when you initially press the pedal, better than the ES350. However, the brakes can use a little more grabbing power. It would benefit from the same brake feel of the IS250.
05-18-09, 06:36 AM
#56
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Very interesting write up. My main criticism of this car is that Lexus didn't wait to adapt to their new 2.5L I4. Based on your review, I think it might have been worth the wait to have a more potent, efficient engine.
05-18-09, 06:47 AM
#57
From this review it sounds like Lexus was not able to refine it much.
I still remain underwhelmed with the HS, but have harped on and on in the HS thread, so I will save my words here.
Thanks for the review Phil
05-18-09, 07:23 AM
#58
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great review. i look forward to driving it in the future.
about the trunk, the Camry has a pass through in the center, albeit a small one, which is weird that no other toyota/lexus sedan hybrid has that
about the trunk, the Camry has a pass through in the center, albeit a small one, which is weird that no other toyota/lexus sedan hybrid has that
05-18-09, 08:20 AM
#59
Pole Position
I don't have much more to add other than to point out that what you described:
This is known as tumblehome and the more you design in the better looking the car is usually perceived.
On the wheel noise side I hope for their sake they do something about that because people want a $35-40K Lexus to be on the quiet side.
Thanks for the review.
From the front, there is minimal sloping of the sides of the car from the floor to the roofline.
On the wheel noise side I hope for their sake they do something about that because people want a $35-40K Lexus to be on the quiet side.
Thanks for the review.
