LexFather

I don't care if you have 40 Lexus. You came in here to make a jab at Lexus again when EVER COMPANY exaggerates or changes their exhaust notes in commercials and movies etc. Your post is ridiculous (again) b/c Lexus isn't the only one that does it.

I apologize if I (and tons of other people) respect BMW engines but feel that the exhaust note sounds like a child farting out a wet diaper. They simply are not sexy. Even with many aftermarket exhausts, they sound more gaspy than throaty. It doesn't take away the other merits of the car(s).

Do you think I bought a hybrid b/c of the exhaust sound? Thanks for showing your true colors and attacking my vehicle instead of sticking to the topic.
Of course though, it makes you feel better to try to drag my car in the conversation. Hey it also handles worse than the 335 and doesn't offer a manual and C&D will love the 335 and not the 450h. You might realize one day people buy cars for different reasons. I want to hear an exhaust, I will jump in the 430 with the L-tuned pipes.
You think b/c you own a Lexus, it gives you a pass to dismiss the brand in car chat at any given time. It doesn't, its old, tired, redundant.

mmarshall

Good point. If the GS hybrid system is like that of other Toyota/Lexus products, there are times when you can take off on the electric motor alone with virtually NO sound at all.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Wow this is a little over the top.. I apologize in advance if you felt that I attacked your vehicle. This is a forum and our opinions will vary. Heads to garage to torch BMW's..

LexFather

Well Mike, DaShocker, is trying to poke fun saying it doesn't have an exhaust sound. No crap sherlock. NO ONE buys a hybrid for exhaust sound. NO ONE. Its even rare for a Prius owner to modify it (its actually frowned upon). Only Toms and one other company makes an exhaust for the Prius.

If I floor the "h" in park nothing happens. Nothing. The gas pedal is on the floor and nothing happens. Its actually pretty cool to me b/c its different. To a Neanderthal, its stupid or something to poke fun at. As you stated up to 20 MPH, the car can drive just on the battery. The car is dead silent. Its funny to actually sneak up on people or drive around the neighborhood, windows down, with the car in total silence.

I rarely even speed in the car. I bought it for different reasons. When the time comes for a sports/sporty sedan, it won't be a hybrid. It will be something with a nice throaty sound, preferably a V-8. In the meantime if I want to hear something nice and throaty and more fun the 430 with the L-tuned exhaust will suffice.

To point is ALL T.V commercials modify their sound. For one they HAVE to. Two we all know from a marketing perspective they want to make the car sound aggressive. Everyone does it.

Here is a pretty accurate commerical. Porsche "bloodlines'. You can hear the different sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXeca7qsolc

Sadly, people with nothing better to do make fun of the IS-F exhaust and now, the Lexus exhaust sound in commercials.

Yay-Z

Test drove this car on thursday.

The pictures dont do it justice. It is a really nice car.

Pros:
Its a lexus
Easy convertible controls
Feedback from steering definately better than my 07 IS
Upgraded Nav is really nice
Its a lexus.

Negs:

If your taller than 5 8" dont even try getting in the back
When top was up, glare on map screen was high, couldnt see a thing
Lines on car when top is up arent the prettiest.

Overall I liked it, I dont think I would buy it though.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Guys, I'm still on my break from the internet, however today I had a chance to test drive both HS250h and IS350-c and I though it would be my duty to share my impressions.

I will start with HS250h. I had the chance to check out a base model and one equipped with navigation screen, and these are my thoughts.

Exterior
I know this car is catching a lot of critisism on this forum for looking like a Corolla, however when you see it in person, it is clearly nothing like a Corolla. It has a rather high stance, which is probably throwing the proportions off, but I would say it is about the size of a current generation Camry. Metallic paint is excellent as you would expect from Lexus. The car wears rather ridiculously large 18" wheels with low profile tires, but even these look small with such tall ride height and the huge wheel wells.

Exterior sheet metal seems adequate - not havy but not a tin can like one would expect from a hybrid. Doors and trunk lid feel rather light, but close with a rather nice "thump". The hood is rather light but it is supported by two shocks, not a cheap (but reliable) prop rod.

Overall exterior build and panel alignment seems very good. I did notice a couple little quirks, but I would blame these on the fact that this is still a pre-production model and Lexus still has time to work these out.

Trunk
I popped up the trunk and was pleasantly surprised by how big it is. You would expect a hybrid to have a tiny useless trunk but this one is probably as big as the trunk in a Corolla, and it is nicey upholstered.

Engine bay
I was expecting that one to be a constipated cluster puzzle, but to my surprise when I popped the hood it had plenty of access and every thing was very nicely organized and made perfect sense. The inline four engine is recessed back, with plenty of room in front of it, all the fluid canisters are right there, the intake, and ECU are easily accessible, and the hybrid system, or a part of it seems to be right up front and easy to access.

I did notice that exaust manifold has some poor quality welds. I hope this is also because the car is still preproduction.

Also, since the car is a hybrid, theres no conventional battery under the hood. I assume the hybrid battery system is hidden somewhere behind the trunk lining. If these batteries ever got drained, the car could be quite complicated to jump start (can you?).

Interior
The thing that amazed me the most is how spacious the interior is. This car easily has more legroom and headroom than both my LS and GS. I am 6'-4" and I was perfectly comfortable in the drivers, passengers, and the rear seats. However it is narrower than the other two car, and it compensates for it with a narrow center handrest that is too narrow to be used by two people at the same time.

The driving positing is also pretty good. The seats are your typical Lexus, very comfortable, fully adjustable, and nicely upholstered. The steering wheel is nice and thick, and smaller in diameter which makes it feel sporty. It is fully automatic in the car with Navi, and manual in the base model. Once you adjust the seat and steering wheel to your settings, it feels very comfortable, the visibility out of the car is very good with no obstructions.

Now as far as the material and build quality, its a mixed bag. The upper dash is made of soft vinyl coated plastic, and has stitched leather upholstery around gauges and center column, and it looks and feels very good and classy. However the lower dash is hard plastic, but it is not too bad because they are textured to match upper dash. The center console is pretty nicely made, but I don't like its placement, and I'm not a fan of the shifter either.

The center armrest is narrow like I said before, and the compartment underneath it is very small. It also feels rather flimsy. The glove compartment is fairly spacy however, but the glove compartment door is flimsy and light.

There's some fake looking wood trim on the doors and center console. I think Lexus should do a better job on this, as it looks awfully fake and cheap.

Now to the doors. The upper portion of the doors it nice, has the same materials as the upper dash, and some leather upholstery. However the lower portion of the door panel is just one piece of unpainted, unfinished, untextured black plastic. It seriously looks and feels like the inside of antifreeze bottle. I assumed it would be a temporary panel since the car is not yet a finished product, but the cute representative lady confirmed that they are indeed a finished product, and that they are some sort of "green fully recyclable plastic". I was speechless. I never seen a worse door panel on any car, not even on a 90ies GMC truck. If I was to buy one of these cars, the first thing I would do is contribute to the global warming by taking it to a reupholstery shop and having them wrapped in nice leather.

While driving I did not hear any squeak or rattles. Felt very solid. I did however notice some misaligned and loose trim, but again I blame it on the fact that the car is not yet finalized.

Controls/Hardware
As you would expect from Lexus, this car has excellent hardware and switches. Like I said before, I'm not crazy about center console placement, but all the buttons and switches have the consistant, pleasant feel that is typical for Lexus.

Most of the control - door locks, windows, seats are the same as most other Lexus, which is a good thing. They are easy to find, easy to understand, and are well placed.

The gauges are also excellent as you would expect from Lexus. Bright, nicely colored and easy to read. However there's no RPM gauge, instead you get a huge gauge that is showing you the status of the hybrid drivetrain. I personally would like to see the RPM gauge in there as well.

However when it comes to radio/climat controls, it is a different story. The base model has traditional Lexus button layout that is very intuitive, and a nice little LCD display that shows you what your radio/ac is doing. I once read a magazine review of LS430, and the writer said in his review that every other manufacturer should be forced under the gun point to copy controls from Lexus. I could not agree more. But this is not the case with the Navi equipped model. The little LCD display and traditional buttons are gone, and isntead you get a huge LCD screen and a mouse controller.

Now, there are a few problems with that. First of all I hate when radio and AC are integrated into navi screen, especially when its that huge. These screens are very annoying and distracting when driving at night, and it is ridiculous that you have to turn it on just to listen to your cd player. But this is only a part of the problem. The bigger part of the problem is the mouse controller. If you think i-Drive is bad, than this thing is ten times worse. First of all the controls on the screen are rather confusing and complicated, and not intuitive at all. And then you have to move the mouse over the icons on the screen and click on icons with another button. Whoever though of this must've been smoking something highly illegal. It would be ridiculous to try and use this controller while driving. And to make even worse, I notice there are some "weather" and "stocks" icons on the screen. Are you kidding me? Checking stocks while driving? I hope Lexus gets sued to hell if some idiot causes an accident while driving and checking stocks.

The drive
As you push the start button, the car comes alive, however it spares you from the cheap starting sound typical of for a four cylinder engine. The car takes off in complete silence being powered by the electric engine, and the four cylinder gas engine seamlessly kicks in as the car sees fit. Overall the drive is very quiet and pleasant. As you cruise around, brake and accelerate lightly, the CVT transmission and hybrid drivetrain provide for seamless drive. Gas engine seems to kick in and out as the car sees fit, but theres no jerk or lurk like one might expect... completely seamless. Just cruising around the car hides its four cylinder nature very well.

However once you slam on the gas, things change quite a bit. The gas engine comes alive with a rather loud pronounced scream of the four cylinder engine. Despite all its efforts, the car barely accelerates. It is unbelievably sluggish, more so than a four cylinder Camry. It does not start to pull until rather high RPMs. Once you get up to speed however, the CVT is able to do it magic and put you in optimal RPMs, so acceleration/passing power becomes adequate.

Overall I was satisfied with the performance. Just dont expect it to be a hot rod, and it makes for an excellent cruiser.

Now, the suspension and ride quality are amazing. It does not ride anything like a small car. It rides with a granite feel or a proper, solid, premium sedan. Well insulated and solid, with no jumpiness, jerkiness, wind or tire noise. The steering has an excellent heavy feel. Handling is really awesome, with minimal to no body roll. Brakes are pretty darn good also. Also it is not overly stiff over bumps and road imperfections, feels nice and firm but not jumpy or back breaking. I'm very, very impressed.


Price
Official pricing is not yet available, but according to the rep, it will start at around 35k and reach mid 40ies fully loaded. It is quite a steep price, but it is a hybrid and it comes with a price.


Fuel mileage
Right now the car is rated at 35mpg combined city and highway. The separate ratings are not yet available, but I think the mileage is pretty impressive for a large car like that.


Final thoughts
Overall I have a positive impression on this car. It is just like your normal car, tons of space, big trunk, good ride and handling. If gas mileage and "green" status are your priorities, and you still want a fully functional vehicle, you should have it on the top of your list. Otherwise, I don't know if I could justify the price tag.


Now to the IS350-c.
I am currently staying away from the internet and working more trying to raise money for an 06+ SC430. I came to this event specifically to check out how the new IS350-c would compare to the SC.

The Lexus rep at the even confirmed that SC is getting discontinued and IS-c will be replacing it. There were two black SC's in the parking lot, so I assume I wasn't the only one who came to see how the IS-c compared to SC.

I got to drive one with an F-sport package. I'm not sure of everything that it includes, but it did have F wheels and brakes, and perhaps some suspension tuning? In any case, as you would expect it was a blast to drive, very fast and had superb handling. I wasn't crazy however about transmission shifting patterns, it shiften backwards and forwards too much, and after hard acceleration it had a long delay before upshifting.

But besides the driving dynamics, I was utterly disappointed in the car. The interior of the car is horrific. The dash and panel plastics feels like they are covered with some sort of resin. There are so many loose and misaligned panels that I cant even blame it on the pre-production. The wood trim looks cheap. Overall the interior is just laughable compared to the SC.

And the exterior isnt much better either. The car of course has excellent paint and looks great from a distance, but look at it a bit closer and its a huge disappointment. When the roof is up, the gaps are at least 1/2" wide. When the roof is down, theres a maze of black plastic panels in the back, with a huge gaps between them. This is just unacceptable.

Overall I see it as a half assed, unfinished attempt by Lexus. I would not even consider buying that instead of the SC. In fact, sadly, SC is probably going to be the last Lexus I will be buying, unless Lexus goes back to their roots and "passionate pursuit of perfection" instead of "L-finesse cost cutting".

And then we were set on our way back home (I was there with a friend) when I saw a BMW M3 with huge "M POWER" stickers on the side. And then I remembered Shaun (DASHOKER) saying something about BMW test drive even taking place on the same day. Little did I realize that the event was taking a place so nearby to the Lexus event. I caught up to the M3 and followed it around, and surely enought it pulled into the place where the event was taking place. In fact I think I saw Shaun there - were you the guy in a blue/green shirt getting iside of a black GS?

In any case, as I pulled in there, I went to the registration table and asked if my friend and I could test drive the cars. They said since we didnt register we would have to wait for a group of 12 people to finish their test drive, and then they would squeeze us into the end of the next group. I figured the wait would be too long, so I opted out, but I did check out the X6M, X5M, M6 and M5 that they had in the lot. I was simply amazed with the M5. That car just fit me like a glove, the driving position, the seat, the steering wheel, the gear shifter, just felt so perfect. And the interior was astonishing as well, - brown leather seats, light brown wood, entire dashboard upholstered with black leather and dark blue suede roof liner. Too bad its almost impossible to find one of these cars used with similar interior combo - most of them come with black leather and aluminum trim. And if I was to buy one of those new, I would have to give up not just the internet, but sleep, food, arm and leg

mmarshall

Nice writeups, Och, especially on the HS. You and Trexus have described it well enough that I moved it a few notches down on my own review list priority.....though I still plan to look at it myself when possible.....it has not been released here on the East Coast yet (the Lexus people say September).

I agree with some of your general comments about integrating NAV, stereo, and climate controls together. Few, if any, new vehicles really do it well. It is almost always more difficult than in non-NAV cars, and, in general, automatic-climate-control systems, even without NAV, have more complex, unclear, confusing controls than those with manual-control units.

As for the IS, I agree the second-generation interior, despite the nicely-finished console, is a letdown from the first-generation model in general material quality. The original IS300, even though its interior was basically that of a Toyota Altezza and not particularly luxurious, used durable, superb materials inside.....not so with the 2Gen model. The 2Gen model, on the surface, looks flashier inside, but when you get inside and sit in it, you notice the difference....except for the superb aluminumized carbon-fiber on the IS-F's console.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Many of the reviews have been quite positive about the steering/handling/ride quality of the HS which is nice to hear.

Seems like Lexus has really been trying to fine-tune their electric power steering, little by little and year by year, ever since it arrived on the 3GS.

nthach

I think the HS and the Insight share the same ideas for the front end...

nthach

There is a regular 12V battery to "boot" the car in the trunk, under the covers. It's a Group 51 size used commonly in Hondas and the HiHy/RXh/Prius. However, it's a VRLA and uses Japanese-sized posts. It can be retrofitted for an Optima, a few guys at PriusChat have done so.

malujerry

iTrader: (7)

i drove both cars and was kinda disappointed. the hs had a corrolla exterior look with a prius interior look. the is350 i drove was boring/girly/something missing. i saw a bunch of nicer M cars running around across the street.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

It is a small world.. That was me Och I thought I saw a whitish tan LS400 pull into the place.. Since you did not get to drive the amazing M cars, did you at least get the free "M" metal thermos & shirt pin? To go from M Tour to the Lexus Tour was like going from the club in the city to a bingo game at the nursing home. So many old folk with gray hair. The drive gave me the same impression.. Both IS-C & HS250 are for those seeking a nice sedate Sunday drive. I am not that type of driver.. It was fun none the less getting the opportunity to drive these cars.. Thank you Ryan for giving us the opportunity!

LexFather

Very good write up!! Funny I've been looking at Pebble Beach SC's recently....just out of curiosity.. Good luck!

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Och, thanks for the great write-ups. seems like lexus has done a great job on suspension/steering for the HS esp. given that it's FWD. the 'gutless' aspect doesn't sound too good though, but lugging a HEFTY NiMH battery pack, motors, etc. is a tall order for a little four banger.
the IS-C seems pretty underwhelming.