How reliable are Porsches?
#31
Lexus Fanatic
They are expensive pleasure vehicles for those that can afford to play, and Porsche cars are quite competitive in their class.
#32
Lexus Fanatic
As I see it, it's hard to determine just what is in Porsche's "class" to start with. You can't compare them to front-engined, RWD supercars like Corvettes and Vipers, for obvious reasons. You can't compare them to small, mid/rear engine cars like the former Toyota MR2, Fiat/Bertone X1-9, and Pontiac Fiero for price reasons. You can't compare them, obviously, to Mustang/Challenger/Camaro pony/muscle cars, or to small front engine/RWD sports cars like the Mazda Miata, Honda S2000, or Mazda RX-8. You can't, IMO, even compare them to a number of other mid/rear-engined supercars like the Ford GT, Ferraris and Lambos, because of some differences in the way Ford and the Italians mount the engines and transmissions in back. Porsche sport cars, of course, (I'll leave the Cayenne as a separate issue), regardless of whether they are mid-engine designs like the Boxster/Cayman or rear-engine like the 911/GT2/GT3, also have a unique 4/6 engine design that is shared by no other automaker in the world except Subaru (and decades-old VWs).
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
#34
Lexus Fanatic
As I see it, it's hard to determine just what is in Porsche's "class" to start with. You can't compare them to front-engined, RWD supercars like Corvettes and Vipers, for obvious reasons. You can't compare them to small, mid/rear engine cars like the former Toyota MR2, Fiat/Bertone X1-9, and Pontiac Fiero for price reasons. You can't compare them, obviously, to Mustang/Challenger/Camaro pony/muscle cars, or to small front engine/RWD sports cars like the Mazda Miata, Honda S2000, or Mazda RX-8. You can't, IMO, even compare them to a number of other mid/rear-engined supercars like the Ford GT, Ferraris and Lambos, because of some differences in the way Ford and the Italians mount the engines and transmissions in back. Porsche sport cars, of course, (I'll leave the Cayenne as a separate issue), regardless of whether they are mid-engine designs like the Boxster/Cayman or rear-engine like the 911/GT2/GT3, also have a unique 4/6 engine design that is shared by no other automaker in the world except Subaru (and decades-old VWs).
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
Porsche outsells and generates more profit than all the exotics mentioned. There is very little in common with a Subie or old aircooled VW anymore other than the flat 6 config, look deeper that's about it.
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Porsche outsells and generates more profit than all the exotics mentioned.
There is very little in common with a Subie or old aircooled VW anymore other than the flat 6 config, look deeper that's about it.
There's something to be said for the Porsche/Subaru engine layout, though. It sits low, is compact, doesn't take up a lot of space, lowers the center of gravity for handling, creates an output shaft location ideal for a simplified powertrain and AWD system without a bunch of bevel-gears, and gets oil pressure up quicker on cold starts than vertical or V-designs. The downside is that, advertising to the contrary, it tends to not be as smooth or quiet as some other designs. And, in rear-engine, tail-heavy Porsches, it was noted, in the past, for sharp oversteer and spin-outs on sharp curves if you let up on the gas.....that problem was not fixed until Porsches got updated suspensions and tires in the 1990s.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-24-09 at 08:11 PM.
#37
Lexus Fanatic
As I see it, it's hard to determine just what is in Porsche's "class" to start with. You can't compare them to front-engined, RWD supercars like Corvettes and Vipers, for obvious reasons. You can't compare them to small, mid/rear engine cars like the former Toyota MR2, Fiat/Bertone X1-9, and Pontiac Fiero for price reasons. You can't compare them, obviously, to Mustang/Challenger/Camaro pony/muscle cars, or to small front engine/RWD sports cars like the Mazda Miata, Honda S2000, or Mazda RX-8. You can't, IMO, even compare them to a number of other mid/rear-engined supercars like the Ford GT, Ferraris and Lambos, because of some differences in the way Ford and the Italians mount the engines and transmissions in back. Porsche sport cars, of course, (I'll leave the Cayenne as a separate issue), regardless of whether they are mid-engine designs like the Boxster/Cayman or rear-engine like the 911/GT2/GT3, also have a unique 4/6 engine design that is shared by no other automaker in the world except Subaru (and decades-old VWs).
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
So, in a nutshell, what DO you consider in Porsche's "class"
No other sports car uses a flat six or has the engine mounted in the rear, only Porsche and it is simply amazing how much hp they can get out of a NA flat 6. 400+ hp from a NA 6 cylinder in the GT3 is more hp then most v8s produce.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
On the subject of Porsche reliability, one of my co-workers had a 996 (earlier water-cooled Carrera) and the engine blew up at just over 100K miles. He wasn't happy that he had to pay for the replacement rebuilt engine. Later he bought a 2006 Carrera, so he still loves these cars for his daily commute, mostly about 35 miles each one on the freeway.
More accurate data will probably surface soon enough on frequency of engine failures, specifically related to IMS failures.
More accurate data will probably surface soon enough on frequency of engine failures, specifically related to IMS failures.
#39
I guess Toyota is officially the most reliable brand then, as they didnt have this strong showing in a long long time now... and this is with new models too, which "supposedly" were less reliable, but apperantly not.
#40
The Porsche sports cars score well only because they usually experience much lower mileage than mainstream cars. I'm more surprised that the Golf Plus beats the Corolla Verso, at least in their first 3 years.
TÜV-Report 2011, 3 year old cars
Rank Type Complaints
1 TOYOTA PRIUS 1.9%
2 TOYOTA AURIS 2.6%
2 MAZDA 2 2.6%
4 PORSCHE BOXSTER/CAYMAN 2.8%
4 VW GOLF PLUS 2.8%
6 FORD FUSION 3.0%
7 TOYOTA COROLLA VERSO 3.1%
8 MAZDA 3 3.2%
9 OPEL AGILA 3.3%
9 SUZUKI SX4 3.3%
…
118 KIA SORENTO 9.2%
119 PEUGEOT 407 9.4%
119 ALFA ROMEO 159 9.4%
121 CITROEN C4 9.5%
122 HYUNDAI ATOS 10.0%
123 HYUNDAI SANTA FE 10.1%
124 CITROEN C5 11.5%
125 FIAT PANDA 11.6%
126 RENAULT ESPACE 12.2%
127 DACIA LOGAN 12.5%
TÜV-Report 2011, 10-11 year old cars
Rank Type Complaints
1 PORSCHE 911 9.5%
2 TOYOTA RAV4 10.0%
3 TOYOTA YARIS 16.8%
4 TOYOTA AVENSIS 17.6%
5 MAZDA MX-5 17.9%
6 MERCEDES SLK 18.1%
6 TOYOTA COROLLA 18.1%
8 SUZUKI VITARA 18.4%
9 MERCEDES S-KLASSE 20.7%
10 HONDA ACCORD 21.0%
…
63 OPEL ZAFIRA 31.6%
64 MERCEDES E-KLASSE 31.6%
65 VW PASSAT 32.2%
66 FIAT PUNTO 32.3%
67 CITROEN BERLINGO 32.4%
68 ALFA ROMEO 156 34.4%
69 FIAT BRAVO/BRAVA 36.0%
70 VW SHARAN 36.5%
71 SEAT ALHAMBRA 36.7%
72 FORD GALAXY 37.9%
73 FORD KA 38.9%
TÜV-Report 2011, 3 year old cars
Rank Type Complaints
1 TOYOTA PRIUS 1.9%
2 TOYOTA AURIS 2.6%
2 MAZDA 2 2.6%
4 PORSCHE BOXSTER/CAYMAN 2.8%
4 VW GOLF PLUS 2.8%
6 FORD FUSION 3.0%
7 TOYOTA COROLLA VERSO 3.1%
8 MAZDA 3 3.2%
9 OPEL AGILA 3.3%
9 SUZUKI SX4 3.3%
…
118 KIA SORENTO 9.2%
119 PEUGEOT 407 9.4%
119 ALFA ROMEO 159 9.4%
121 CITROEN C4 9.5%
122 HYUNDAI ATOS 10.0%
123 HYUNDAI SANTA FE 10.1%
124 CITROEN C5 11.5%
125 FIAT PANDA 11.6%
126 RENAULT ESPACE 12.2%
127 DACIA LOGAN 12.5%
TÜV-Report 2011, 10-11 year old cars
Rank Type Complaints
1 PORSCHE 911 9.5%
2 TOYOTA RAV4 10.0%
3 TOYOTA YARIS 16.8%
4 TOYOTA AVENSIS 17.6%
5 MAZDA MX-5 17.9%
6 MERCEDES SLK 18.1%
6 TOYOTA COROLLA 18.1%
8 SUZUKI VITARA 18.4%
9 MERCEDES S-KLASSE 20.7%
10 HONDA ACCORD 21.0%
…
63 OPEL ZAFIRA 31.6%
64 MERCEDES E-KLASSE 31.6%
65 VW PASSAT 32.2%
66 FIAT PUNTO 32.3%
67 CITROEN BERLINGO 32.4%
68 ALFA ROMEO 156 34.4%
69 FIAT BRAVO/BRAVA 36.0%
70 VW SHARAN 36.5%
71 SEAT ALHAMBRA 36.7%
72 FORD GALAXY 37.9%
73 FORD KA 38.9%
#41
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The title is misleading.
The TÜV has absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of a vehicle. It examines vehicles and makes note of DEFECTS that could potentially lead to the vehicle experiencing a mishap due to the failure of certain components. This also includes components that generally experience wear and tear.
An example of what the TÜV examines would be the physical condition of a cars brake pads or rubber seal linings on crucial components or the kilowatt strength of the headlights etc.
An older reliable car that has been neglected and whose components are in poor shape will get a failing score at the TÜV whereas a newer unreliable car whose components are in tip-top shape will be awarded excellent and passing markings.
The TÜV in Germany simply ensures that people have an incentive to take care of their cars and have them roadworthy at all times.
The TÜV has absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of a vehicle. It examines vehicles and makes note of DEFECTS that could potentially lead to the vehicle experiencing a mishap due to the failure of certain components. This also includes components that generally experience wear and tear.
An example of what the TÜV examines would be the physical condition of a cars brake pads or rubber seal linings on crucial components or the kilowatt strength of the headlights etc.
An older reliable car that has been neglected and whose components are in poor shape will get a failing score at the TÜV whereas a newer unreliable car whose components are in tip-top shape will be awarded excellent and passing markings.
The TÜV in Germany simply ensures that people have an incentive to take care of their cars and have them roadworthy at all times.
#43
The 911 doesn't add much by being in this survey. It doesn't even sell enough to be statistically meaningful and its relatively meticulous owners will 1) Drive relatively few miles on them, and 2) Make sure that the cars are in good shape, at least when inspection time comes. After all, they can afford it.
#44
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The 911 doesn't add much by being in this survey. It doesn't even sell enough to be statistically meaningful and its relatively meticulous owners will 1) Drive relatively few miles on them, and 2) Make sure that the cars are in good shape, at least when inspection time comes. After all, they can afford it.
The 911 enjoys the reputation of a practical daily driver and weekend sports car which means people use them to go to work and back home or tour across Europe visiting country after country.
If you look into the second hand section of some car magazines, it isn't uncommon to find high mileage Porsches in them with mileages of up to 150,000 km or more. They're less desirable than a low mileage model, though (naturally).
#45
How reliable is the Porsche Cayenne?
A friend of mine is thinking of selling his Land Cruiser 2008 for something more sporty but he is worried that he will not have the same trouble free experience he has had with the Toyota.
He doesn't go off road much so he doesn't need the off road capability of the LC, its just too heavy and
bulky for him, its expected though since the Land Cruisers are built like Tanks.
Anyway, how has the reliability of the newer Cayenne S been like?
He is looking for one without all the technological/electronic gizmos, as basic as they come as he figures it will be less costly in the long term, what do you think?
He doesn't go off road much so he doesn't need the off road capability of the LC, its just too heavy and
bulky for him, its expected though since the Land Cruisers are built like Tanks.
Anyway, how has the reliability of the newer Cayenne S been like?
He is looking for one without all the technological/electronic gizmos, as basic as they come as he figures it will be less costly in the long term, what do you think?