GM bankruptcy
05-28-09, 06:10 PM
#47
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The Volt would still be selling at a loss. There is no way Government Motors could afford that after they come out of bankruptcy. If there's going to be a new GM they're going to need to sell cars at a profit if they stand a chance to even remotely survive...good luckers...
05-28-09, 07:48 PM
#48
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union workers have pride in the union, not the company. 
if they cared about the survival of the company they would have taken the necessary steps to allow the company to CHANGE, INVEST, and be EFFICIENT. instead, the union did everyone possible to BLOCK change, take as much as possible now to limit investment, and to force work rules that made the company almost impossibly INEFFICIENT. so take an athlete, wrap chains around it, stuff it with donuts, and expect it to run a sub-10 100. not gonna happen.
well put. the current administration with teams reid and pelosi though are in a whole league of their own compared to bush and co.
the only thing i think obama cares about is the blue collar workers not being poor and destitute. i don't think he cares about cars, the companies, etc., so i think gm and chrysler will just wither away under govt and union mismanagement. and fiat? what a laugh.
maybe, but in limited numbers, with limited dealers, built by the union holdouts, and probably priced too high, so it will fail.
they will monday apparently.
if they cared about the survival of the company they would have taken the necessary steps to allow the company to CHANGE, INVEST, and be EFFICIENT. instead, the union did everyone possible to BLOCK change, take as much as possible now to limit investment, and to force work rules that made the company almost impossibly INEFFICIENT. so take an athlete, wrap chains around it, stuff it with donuts, and expect it to run a sub-10 100. not gonna happen.
Does everyone realize with taxpayer dollars bailing out banks and car companies EVERY TAXPAYER should be able to walk to the bank, get a damn loan and go to the dealership and tell them make me the EXACT car I want with the DOLLARS YOU TOOK FROM ME. This started with the last adminstration and rolled right into this new one. 
I guess with the government now changing CAFE standards and them owning 2 car companies, they will tell us exactly what car to drive soon. 
maybe, but in limited numbers, with limited dealers, built by the union holdouts, and probably priced too high, so it will fail.
they will monday apparently.
05-28-09, 08:12 PM
#49
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Anyway, felt like pulling out the calculator to see how much sense the Volt makes in one scenario.
OK, so the Volt will go 40 miles on a full charge without a drop of fuel.
Let's say you do...
40 miles a day, 7 days a week = 14,560 mi/year (very typical)
Similar sized car that averages 25 mpg would use 582 gallons of fuel per year.
= $1,456 per year on today's CHEAP $2.50/gal gas. It WILL continue to go up again.
= $14,560 saved on gas for a typical 10 years of ownership.
or $20,370 at $3.50/gal!
or $29,100 saved if gas were to average a very possible $5.00/gallon over the next 10 years.
Hmm.
So is a $40K Volt expensive? Only for those who think gas is free.
05-28-09, 09:01 PM
#50
I wouldve liked to see GM go chapter 11 and restructure on their own, and make great products again, but not under the thumb of the govt. They wont ever make a good car again if the govt is calling the shots. Look how badly Amtrak is run.
Volts just gonna be there to pad the mpg stats of the fleet
Volts just gonna be there to pad the mpg stats of the fleet
05-29-09, 03:34 AM
#51
No, he clearly stated that it will sell for $40K but with supposed tax credits, it would bring the actual cost down to $32K.
Anyway, felt like pulling out the calculator to see how much sense the Volt makes in one scenario.
OK, so the Volt will go 40 miles on a full charge without a drop of fuel.
Let's say you do...
40 miles a day, 7 days a week = 14,560 mi/year (very typical)
Similar sized car that averages 25 mpg would use 582 gallons of fuel per year.
= $1,456 per year on today's CHEAP $2.50/gal gas. It WILL continue to go up again.
= $14,560 saved on gas for a typical 10 years of ownership.
or $20,370 at $3.50/gal!
or $29,100 saved if gas were to average a very possible $5.00/gallon over the next 10 years.
Hmm.
So is a $40K Volt expensive? Only for those who think gas is free.
Anyway, felt like pulling out the calculator to see how much sense the Volt makes in one scenario.
OK, so the Volt will go 40 miles on a full charge without a drop of fuel.
Let's say you do...
40 miles a day, 7 days a week = 14,560 mi/year (very typical)
Similar sized car that averages 25 mpg would use 582 gallons of fuel per year.
= $1,456 per year on today's CHEAP $2.50/gal gas. It WILL continue to go up again.
= $14,560 saved on gas for a typical 10 years of ownership.
or $20,370 at $3.50/gal!
or $29,100 saved if gas were to average a very possible $5.00/gallon over the next 10 years.
Hmm.
So is a $40K Volt expensive? Only for those who think gas is free.
05-29-09, 03:57 AM
#52
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05-29-09, 05:26 AM
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(With video from his apperance)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=148667
Date posted: 05-21-2009
NEW YORK — Consumers can expect to pay around $32,500 for the Chevrolet Volt when it arrives in showrooms in early 2011, retiring GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Wednesday on CBS' Late Night with David Letterman. In effect, this is the first official word from General Motors about the anticipated sticker price of the automaker's first mass-produced electric car.
"We've got 50 of them now," Lutz told Letterman, describing the status of the Volt. "We'll build a couple hundred more for testing."
When asked about pricing, he replied: "Our best estimate is right around $40,000 [and after a government rebate of about $7,500], the customer is looking at 32 and 1/2."
Lutz also said that the Volt "will be built in the United States and exported all over the world."
He said the Volt will begin to trickle into dealerships at the end of 2010, with "real showroom availability in early 2011."
"With any luck at all, I'll get one of these babies free," Letterman joked.
Lutz and a production version of the Volt shared the spotlight with Letterman for nearly seven minutes. Letterman explained that Lutz was invited to be a guest after Tesla Motors' Elon Musk was a guest on the show on April 29. Letterman took several vicious swipes at the Volt during Musk's appearance, prompting Lutz to fire back on the GM FastLane blog.
"CBS called and said 'Hey, jackass, GM wants to put a car on the show,' " Letterman said in advance of Lutz's appearance.
During his appearance, Lutz explained the failure of GM's two-passenger electric EV1, after Letterman asked if that vehicle could have been "enough to keep financial problems away."
"No," Lutz said. "They probably cost us over $100,000 apiece to build. We were unable to sell them. After a billion dollars, the finance guys [at GM] said 'that's enough' and we terminated it."
Unlike the Tesla Roadster and Model S, the Chevrolet Volt is not fully electric. The Volt can run in full-electric mode for around 40 miles, and then the car's gasoline engine kicks in. Letterman asked Lutz, "Why doesn't GM have a car that's solely electric?"
"We can," Lutz said, without offering details. He added: "We can't survive on doing $100,000 cars," in a reference to the price of the Tesla Roadster.
Inside Line says: Car guy Letterman shows some respect for the Chevy Volt, and GM gets some much-needed positive publicity. — Anita Lienert, Correspondent
NEW YORK — Consumers can expect to pay around $32,500 for the Chevrolet Volt when it arrives in showrooms in early 2011, retiring GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Wednesday on CBS' Late Night with David Letterman. In effect, this is the first official word from General Motors about the anticipated sticker price of the automaker's first mass-produced electric car.
"We've got 50 of them now," Lutz told Letterman, describing the status of the Volt. "We'll build a couple hundred more for testing."
When asked about pricing, he replied: "Our best estimate is right around $40,000 [and after a government rebate of about $7,500], the customer is looking at 32 and 1/2."
Lutz also said that the Volt "will be built in the United States and exported all over the world."
He said the Volt will begin to trickle into dealerships at the end of 2010, with "real showroom availability in early 2011."
"With any luck at all, I'll get one of these babies free," Letterman joked.
Lutz and a production version of the Volt shared the spotlight with Letterman for nearly seven minutes. Letterman explained that Lutz was invited to be a guest after Tesla Motors' Elon Musk was a guest on the show on April 29. Letterman took several vicious swipes at the Volt during Musk's appearance, prompting Lutz to fire back on the GM FastLane blog.
"CBS called and said 'Hey, jackass, GM wants to put a car on the show,' " Letterman said in advance of Lutz's appearance.
During his appearance, Lutz explained the failure of GM's two-passenger electric EV1, after Letterman asked if that vehicle could have been "enough to keep financial problems away."
"No," Lutz said. "They probably cost us over $100,000 apiece to build. We were unable to sell them. After a billion dollars, the finance guys [at GM] said 'that's enough' and we terminated it."
Unlike the Tesla Roadster and Model S, the Chevrolet Volt is not fully electric. The Volt can run in full-electric mode for around 40 miles, and then the car's gasoline engine kicks in. Letterman asked Lutz, "Why doesn't GM have a car that's solely electric?"
"We can," Lutz said, without offering details. He added: "We can't survive on doing $100,000 cars," in a reference to the price of the Tesla Roadster.
Inside Line says: Car guy Letterman shows some respect for the Chevy Volt, and GM gets some much-needed positive publicity. — Anita Lienert, Correspondent
05-29-09, 05:29 AM
#54
P.S. On thing to keep in mind, the cost of electricity is often indirectly subsidized. You see, most electricity is actually generated by burning coal, which is cheap. But the coal mining industry has been subsidized for ages. And you must realize that the money towards these subsidies are coming out of your pockets.
Last edited by Och; 05-29-09 at 05:35 AM.
05-29-09, 05:32 AM
#55
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union workers have pride in the union, not the company.
if they cared about the survival of the company they would have taken the necessary steps to allow the company to CHANGE, INVEST, and be EFFICIENT. instead, the union did everyone possible to BLOCK change, take as much as possible now to limit investment, and to force work rules that made the company almost impossibly INEFFICIENT. so take an athlete, wrap chains around it, stuff it with donuts, and expect it to run a sub-10 100. not gonna happen.
.
if they cared about the survival of the company they would have taken the necessary steps to allow the company to CHANGE, INVEST, and be EFFICIENT. instead, the union did everyone possible to BLOCK change, take as much as possible now to limit investment, and to force work rules that made the company almost impossibly INEFFICIENT. so take an athlete, wrap chains around it, stuff it with donuts, and expect it to run a sub-10 100. not gonna happen.
.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/21/news...ion=2009052113
Unions did not design the flawed cars. Unions did not make the purchasing decisions. All Union's are to GM is an overhead cost that is built into their cars. If their workers took pay cuts across the board a $20,000 car might end up costing $19,000. Are you more likely to buy it now over a Toyota or Nissan? I do not think so. Cost has been only one factor and a small one at that. The problem was not that American car's were more expensive than foreign cars. The problem was MPGs and Quality! Both of these fall on white-collar design engineers, not blue-collar assembly line workers. Quit harping on the little guys and learn to think. Perhaps a business education or 10+ yr in automotive industry? I got that, do you?
Last edited by Btmnk21; 05-29-09 at 05:38 AM.
05-29-09, 05:44 AM
#56
Shut. it.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/21/news...ion=2009052113
Unions did not design the flawed cars. Unions did not make the purchasing decisions. All Union's are to GM is an overhead cost that is built into their cars. If their workers took pay cuts across the board a $20,000 car might end up costing $19,000. Are you more likely to buy it now over a Toyota or Nissan? I do not think so. Cost has been only one factor and a small one at that. The problem was not that American car's were more expensive than foreign cars. The problem was MPGs and Quality! Both of these fall on white-collar design engineers, not blue-collar assembly line workers. Quit harping on the little guys and learn to think.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/21/news...ion=2009052113
Unions did not design the flawed cars. Unions did not make the purchasing decisions. All Union's are to GM is an overhead cost that is built into their cars. If their workers took pay cuts across the board a $20,000 car might end up costing $19,000. Are you more likely to buy it now over a Toyota or Nissan? I do not think so. Cost has been only one factor and a small one at that. The problem was not that American car's were more expensive than foreign cars. The problem was MPGs and Quality! Both of these fall on white-collar design engineers, not blue-collar assembly line workers. Quit harping on the little guys and learn to think.
Nowadays however they are improving. At least Ford and GM are, Chrysler is still building pure junk. But nowadays the unions are indeed creepling them. What they need to do now is tell the unions to take a hike, and hire new workers who are willing to do reasonable work for reasonable compensation. And keep building cars like current Malibu, Fusion, Taurus, MKS, CTS/CTS-V, Corvette. And now would be the best opportunity for GM/Ford to get a nice cush of the market, because the Japanese who were once known for high quality now dropped the ball. Just look at any new Toyota/Honda/Nissan, they are cheaply made and have nasty interiors.
05-29-09, 05:52 AM
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American cars were not more expensive than foreign, they were just crappy, fugly, poorly built, with vomit inducing interiors. Since the 80ies until about 2-3 years ago, there was not a single semi decent American car.
Nowadays however they are improving. At least Ford and GM are, Chrysler is still building pure junk. But nowadays the unions are indeed creepling them. What they need to do now is tell the unions to take a hike, and hire new workers who are willing to do reasonable work for reasonable compensation. And keep building cars like current Malibu, Fusion, Taurus, MKS, CTS/CTS-V, Corvette. And now would be the best opportunity for GM/Ford to get a nice cush of the market, because the Japanese who were once known for high quality now dropped the ball. Just look at any new Toyota/Honda/Nissan, they are cheaply made and have nasty interiors.
Nowadays however they are improving. At least Ford and GM are, Chrysler is still building pure junk. But nowadays the unions are indeed creepling them. What they need to do now is tell the unions to take a hike, and hire new workers who are willing to do reasonable work for reasonable compensation. And keep building cars like current Malibu, Fusion, Taurus, MKS, CTS/CTS-V, Corvette. And now would be the best opportunity for GM/Ford to get a nice cush of the market, because the Japanese who were once known for high quality now dropped the ball. Just look at any new Toyota/Honda/Nissan, they are cheaply made and have nasty interiors.
I'll defintely give you the above except for "any"... Sienna, Odyssey and Highlander interiors are nicely done compared to their respective market segments...
I love the Flex, but interior seems slapped together... otherwise it rocks!!! New Mustang tweaks are good move as well.... Ford has got game and IS in position to challenge the Japanese and Koreans...
GM= puke
Chrysler= dead man walking
05-29-09, 06:00 AM
#59
Lexus Test Driver
I recently look at a Caddy CTS, I will tell you where the American auto worker's pride is, it is in their paycheck. I spotted 2 quality problem right off the bat and I didnt even look that hard. UAW workers should built with pride, the American auto company should raise their built standards and rejects problems when line workers or QC inspectors point them out. The engineering is there, its just bad built quality and cheap interior materials.
05-29-09, 06:33 AM
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and the $7K mark-up for the Hybrid pi$$es away the mileage benefit