FKL

well thanks for the thoughful reasoning behind your convulded "conclusions"


Have no idea what you're takling about. The tired "german turn signal stalk" sticking point is moot here. This is a MKIV Golf and has the older, larger, and less hollow feling pieces, complete with integrated buttons for the MFA display in the gauges, far from cheap and identicle in operation and feel to the same piece in an Audi. I'd suggest you go try these out if you still insist on reaching the same conclusions from some recent test you did in a current VW The huge expanse of dash is soft to the touch. So ridiculous, I know. Reality is, the build quality is top-notch, this is inarguable as far as I'm concerned, especially when you compare the quality to the trash that benefitted a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla in the year 2000. And this, my friend, is a sentiment echoed by every single review of the New Bettle.

And I disagree, somewhere in every stereotype there lies a bit of truth, and in this case, the sales spread confirms the obvious - This is a car bought by women, and marketed towards women. Ditto on the Eos (a goddess in Greek mythology). Of course this is not to be taken in totality, but marginally...

nthach

I've seen plenty of men drive around in Beetles - and not just the Castro or Geek Squad crowd either. The turbo ones are sleepers too.

Besides, the cars I've noticed that frequent the Castro/Twin Peaks is the Prius, Insight, C-Class and 3 Series. San Francisco is way left of center.

IS350jet

As stereotypical as it might sound to you, it's not just a perception in the public eye, as the Beetle is built, and marketed to woman, by Volkswagen. Sure, any man can drive one, but Volkswagen knows who their target audience is.

IS-SV

You are welcome.

The dorqed-out new Beetle on a fwd drive Golf chassis trying to copy the old classic styling of a rear-engine, air-cooled Bug is truly convoluted. The net result is odd proportions, mediocre aerodynamics, small trunk, huge dashboard and a cartoonish look. But it does get a giggle out of most people, so that's good.

We realize you are a big fan of VW, although it's still not clear why, certainly everybody is entitled to their opinion even if they can't be bothered to own a VW.

DustinV

Interesting debate here.

I just want to say that the new Polo looks fantastic. I saw my first one a few days ago. Same color as the one below.

mmarshall

It's very simple to understand. Not difficult at all.


[QUOTE]The tired "german turn signal stalk" sticking point is moot here. This is a MKIV Golf and has the older, larger, and less hollow feling pieces, complete with integrated buttons for the MFA display in the gauges, far from cheap and identicle in operation and feel to the same piece in an Audi.
I'd suggest you go try these out if you still insist on reaching the same conclusions from some recent test you did in a current VW.[QUOTE]

I've seen more or less the same (and in many instances, THE same) stalks in almost every recent VW, BMW, and Audi designed vehicle I've driven or tested, though there have been a few exceptions from Mercedes. That's not slanting things to match my pre-conceived notions, or just convincing myself that they are flimsy when they aren't. They are indeed flimsy-feeling, as far as I'm concerned. I base that opinion on the type, thickness, and feel of the black plastics used by these manufacturers. You are entitled to disagree with me, and say that, to YOU, they DON'T feel flimsy, but, on this issue, I am not going to change my mind....my statement stands.


I never said it wasn't soft to the touch. But, just the same, it doesn't need to be there. That huge expanse of dash behind the steering wheel, as far as I'm concerned, is just wasted interior space, and something to help the sun roast the interior, but, of course, interior space efficiency is not the Beetle's forte to start with.

I don't know how you define "build quality", but with the exception of 2008, EVERY year since the New Beetle was introduced , it has had either a below-average or well-below-average reliability rating from Consumer Reports, with the electrical, body-hardware, and fuel systems being especially troublesome. This, BTW, has been the case with most VW products.


The problem, my friend, is not so much auto stereotypes, but the fact that people (and even some manufacturers) BELIEVE those stereotypes. Perfect case in point......the Scions were "marketed" for young people (the name "Scion" itself, means, "Youth"). But many people in the 40s, 50s, and up actually bought them, along WITH young people. Why? because they are generally cheap, affordable for old people on fixed incomes, get good mileage, offer Toyota quality, and have good resale value.

Another example.......the Cadillac CTS was supposed to be for "younger" Cadillac buyers, yet many, if not, most, of the people I've seen driving the non-V-model CTS, especially the first-generation model, have been rather well up in years.

Yet another example (one I've often commented on before): If you believe the nonsense the auto press puts out, Buicks are supposed to be geezer cars for Grandpa and Grandma, yet, at least where I live, you often see younger prople driving them as well.

mmarshall

I agree. For the Beetle, VW, IMO, should have used a classic VW air-cooled, rear-engine setup, although it might have been difficult (for reasons I explained before) for that type of engine to meet U.S. emissions. Still, VW could have asked the EPA for an emissions waiver......the EPA sometimes grants them, as they did in 1981-82 for Chrysler products and on a few other occasions.

bad co

The emissions waver would not work, its only granted after alot of money has been put in to the design of the engine and it still failed to perform. Every one knows that air cooled is bad emission's wise. Air Cooled is also very noisy. It would have failed. The beetle is still a sucsess, look theyre everywhere !!

FKL

The issue is, the turn signal stalk found in a New Beetle are the same from a MKIV Golf. That stalk is not used in current VWs or Audis and hasn't been since 2005 (vw) and 2002 (Audi). It's a high quality piece that is much more complicated in operation compared to something from Honda for instance. There is all sorts of integrated wiring for the five buttons integrated into the stalk. Mind you, the stalk has buttons that need to be pressed on it, so it has a very solid and stout feel so it won't move around easily. The case you are making about the plastic is a little sketchy. Honda, for instance, in their 92-02 vehicles, used a shiny, hollow piece of plastic. This may have give the impression it was high quality, becuase it was masked in a glossy coat of black paint, but the reality is, it was insubstantial. Just adjusting the wiper blade speed feels like thurning a piece of cheap dime door plastic which is ready to fall off at any second. My 04-Accord has the new matte appearance, which feels better to that old piece. You may notice I agree with you that the new stalks are cheaper, but the fact is, there is no comparison to be made between them, and the older ones found in the older products.





We've been over this time and time again, mmmarshall. It's obvious that the only factor you take into account when assessing "build quality" is some bubbles in a consumer reports showing. I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. I don't care if some Hyundai Accent has "above average reliability", that doesn't give anyone the right to tout it's phenomenal build quality. If you've owned a Macbook, for instance, you'll appreciate it's almost fanatical attention to precision in every hardware element of the design, and you'll be able to recognize why they cost so much. The same holds true for many VW products as well. You are paying for added refinement, added detailing, and added solidness, all of which translate into beautiful build quality. That doesn't mean they are as reliable as a Hyundai Accent - again, neither is a Mercedes-Benz S-Class. I don't hear anyone calling that car on it's "poor build quality".

nthach

VW still built the original Beetle at their Puebla, Mexico plant up until 2004-2005. It was the best selling car in Mexico and South America too. Too bad their boxer 4s polluted more than a old school Chevy 350!

Maybe VW should have used a RR setup like in the 911, or even a boxer 4 midship ala Boxster.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Are we seriously discussing the quality of the Beetle's interior here? Sorry, but its horrible in design, quality of function.

LexFather

Interior quality is not a strong point. Beetle's are bought for its style and well, its a "bug". VW did tease us with a possible return to a Rear engine bug or another model with a rear engine but it has now been shelved.

Funny but I've said for years what VW should do is make the Beetle back to what it was. Cheap transport. Bare bones, sell for 9-10k and people would buy millions of them again. The Beetle is not cheap amazingly!

I really liked the new Beetle and I still do. I'll never forget when one of my girlfriends bought a baby blue convertible turbo and one time we hung out and she was drinking so I had to drive with the top down from downtown to midtown to buckhead.

Very interesting looks I got in it . It was rough, course, not that fast and the radio wasn't working for whatever reason as well as the turn signals. She loved it though cause it was "cute" and a droptop.

I should post pics of her rear, its like a rear engine Beetle

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

When it comes to stalks, think "Jack and the bean stalk

DustinV

Cars like the Beetle and MINI Cooper have "cult status".

You can revive them, overprice them and people still want and will pay for them.