Hyundai:The New Lexus Competitor
07-09-09, 09:40 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
All this talk of how it looks and good the interior looks ect, but what about where a serious amount of money is spent in regards to safety. In my eyes the low cost of these cars has to have a place where the hyundai is skimping on and that would have to be the safety element. Ask yourself, what tires do these cars come out with, what is the quality of the steering and brake components and how do they fair in crash testing ect, ect. They still have a long way to go before you can start comparing the two brands IMO.
07-09-09, 09:44 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
All this talk of how it looks and good the interior looks ect, but what about where a serious amount of money is spent in regards to safety. In my eyes the low cost of these cars has to have a place where the hyundai is skimping on and that would have to be the safety element. Ask yourself, what tires do these cars come out with, what is the quality of the steering and brake components and how do they fair in crash testing ect, ect. They still have a long way to go before you can start comparing the two brands IMO.
oh but on one point, tires, you're right lexus has delivered a lot of cars with the CRAPPIEST tires imaginable. Goodyear 'Integrity' tires on my RX300 (GARBAGE) and Bridgestone Potenzas on my GS400 (JUNK).
07-10-09, 07:28 AM
#50
Lexus Test Driver
One poster here have mentioned, a few years ago, he could not believe there would be a $110000 Lexus and compare scenario to a $60000 Hyundai today. Let me ask you, how is that $110000 Lexus selling these days? Buyers are not yet willing to spend $110000 on a Lexus and a $60000 Hyundai will take a little longer to be accepted.
The other hot topic is copying other car manufacturer's design and the fact that there are only many design that is original. I can say that there is a big difference in a direct copy than two companies who are going in the same direction design wise. There is nothing original in that Hyundai, everything is a copy. It’s almost like buying a pair of knock off designer jeans or a fake Rolex. Almost every luxury car in this price range have something original about it, BMW's Halo lights, Audi's LED or oversize grill, Lexus logo or MB's front grill.
The other hot topic is copying other car manufacturer's design and the fact that there are only many design that is original. I can say that there is a big difference in a direct copy than two companies who are going in the same direction design wise. There is nothing original in that Hyundai, everything is a copy. It’s almost like buying a pair of knock off designer jeans or a fake Rolex. Almost every luxury car in this price range have something original about it, BMW's Halo lights, Audi's LED or oversize grill, Lexus logo or MB's front grill.
07-10-09, 07:47 AM
#51
Super Moderator
One poster here have mentioned, a few years ago, he could not believe there would be a $110000 Lexus and compare scenario to a $60000 Hyundai today. Let me ask you, how is that $110000 Lexus selling these days? Buyers are not yet willing to spend $110000 on a Lexus and a $60000 Hyundai will take a little longer to be accepted..
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 07-10-09 at 07:58 AM.
07-10-09, 08:18 AM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
You know that $110000 Lexus is a limited production hybrid right ? They sold the entire year's production as soon as it was launched in the U.S., same here in Canada. That was before the economy really tanked in the fall of last year though.
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/04/l...ndred-percent/
Remember when the Lexus LS 600h was on the way, and there was head-scratching aplenty about the $100K+ price and the delay? At the time, Lexus said it only planned to sell 2,000 of the hybrid cruisers per year, and that they already had orders for 1,650 of them. Then the car came out, and in spite of being treated rather unkindly by the motoring press and boasting a less-than-stellar MPG improvement, it has sold 6,093 worldwide through October. The car only went on sale in July.
07-10-09, 08:23 AM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
You know that $110000 Lexus is a limited production hybrid right ? They sold the entire year's production as soon as it was launched in the U.S., same here in Canada. That was before the economy really tanked in the fall of last year though.
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
07-10-09, 08:29 AM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Only 5% of LS allocation was for the hybrid and it IS SPECIAL ORDER ONLY. They are not just sitting on dealer lots.
The LS 600hL is the first and still only Japanese sedan/car over 100,000. Clearly Lexus would be very cautious as the status quo is the traditional V-12 and W12 cars. The AMG cars are also over 100k (but not direct competition).
We don't have data breaking down LS 600, S600 sales, A8 W-12 sales. Don't forget BMW DROPPED their V-12 a couple years ago. We do know those cars all only sell in very small quantities.
07-10-09, 08:29 AM
#55
Super Moderator
As for the S and the 7, their volume car is their "regular" V8' models. Their S63 and V12's only make up a few % of the total sales in the U.S.,(& even fewer overseas), like the 600hL compared with the "regular" LS460 and 460L's.
07-10-09, 08:34 AM
#56
Super Moderator
When BMW used to break down their sales numbers in their sales press release before, the V12 is usually less than 5% of total 7 series sales. Mercedse sales person had told me before that the regular V8 S-class is usually 90+% of total sales.
07-10-09, 08:35 AM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
Do you really thing Lexus would rather use to the hybrid component on a Puris and make a profit of $5000 on a car than to use it on a LS-h and make a profit that is probably 5 times as much? If Lexus thinks it can sell 50000 LS-h a year, they would make capacity in their factory to produce that many, or at least have plans to do that. Lexus is a smart company, they do not want to over produce like the American car companies and have over stock in the dealer's lot.
Last edited by The G Man; 07-10-09 at 08:41 AM.
07-10-09, 08:55 AM
#58
Super Moderator
I have heard a typical S-class buyer average $10K in options, making it just short of $100k, plus they offer more incentives/better lease deals than Lexus, and are just as affordable than a Lexus with MSRP $10K+ less.
BMW 7-series has SWB versions too, and are not as expensive as the S-class.
I spent 6 months deciding between a loaded LS460L, and a S550, and the price difference isn't even a consideration for me, they are close enough.
Many Lexus LS owners here who were former MB and BMW owners did't switch to Lexus because of price, they could just as easily stayed with them instead of going to Lexus.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 07-10-09 at 08:59 AM.
07-10-09, 09:04 AM
#59
Lexus Test Driver
For most people who is looking for their 1st $100000 car, my bet is that they are looking at the S-class or the 7 series.
I think Lexus is changing that image as well speak, 10 years ago, if you would have said Lexus is selling a $100000 sedan, you would have been laugh right out the door.
07-10-09, 11:14 AM
#60
Super Moderator
Do you really thing Lexus would rather use to the hybrid component on a Puris and make a profit of $5000 on a car than to use it on a LS-h and make a profit that is probably 5 times as much? If Lexus thinks it can sell 50000 LS-h a year, they would make capacity in their factory to produce that many, or at least have plans to do that. Lexus is a smart company, they do not want to over produce like the American car companies and have over stock in the dealer's lot.
The raw materials and other manufacturing cost of building a LF-A certainly is a lot less than the $200K+ price that's rumoured(most of the cost of development went to R &D, already a sunk cost, not raw materials and factory overheads and labour of building it), why do you think they want to limit it to only a 500 units run. Clearly, some cars are not build to maximize profits, or they could have build more and sell more of it at a lower price and actually bring in more total revenues.
For the 600hL, I think we cannot speculate on how flexible their production facility is for hybrid cars, it may not be as easy to adjust as you think once they decide on a quota for certain cars.
And if they want to sell more LS600h's for more profits rather tha prius cars, then to quote my previous post again below, why aren't they building this LS600hL for this customer right away by just taking whatever shared hybrid components from a prius and use them to build a LS600hL instead ?
Why do they tell him they have to wait til July for a next year model, knowing they could very likely lose this customer for the LS-h if they make him wait that long.
Looks to me that the 150 units per year allotment for Canada is firm and they won't increase it even by one unit, even though they can make a lot more money from a LS600hL sale than a prius sale.
Originally Posted by Gojirra99
When I ordered my LS460L last year, there was another customer at the dealership who wanted to order a 600hL in January, but was told that all planned production for the 600hL for the year were spoken for, and they won't be building 600hL's again until July, that's the soonest they can start building him the car he wants, i.e., for the next model year.
I think you just said the magic words, former MB and BMW owners. I guess after driving what the Germans have to offer, most people would naturally want to try a Japanese offering, and Lexus is the best Japanese offering when it comes to luxury cars.
For most people who is looking for their 1st $100000 car, my bet is that they are looking at the S-class or the 7 series.
I think Lexus is changing that image as well speak, 10 years ago, if you would have said Lexus is selling a $100000 sedan, you would have been laugh right out the door.
For most people who is looking for their 1st $100000 car, my bet is that they are looking at the S-class or the 7 series.
I think Lexus is changing that image as well speak, 10 years ago, if you would have said Lexus is selling a $100000 sedan, you would have been laugh right out the door.
I think most people who shop for high end luxury cars is more concerned with the history/prestige/image of the brand more so than the price differences if they are not too big. That's where MB/BMW has the advantage over Lexus IMO, not the price differences.