Anyone Use The CARS Program?
08-08-09, 01:47 PM
#50
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*sigh* because America isn't racking up enough debt already ...
Sorry guys, I see where this whole idea is going (both directly & indirectly), it just seems like all of these various stimulous things aren't being very well thought out & that there may be alternative ways to accomplish the same goals.
Sorry guys, I see where this whole idea is going (both directly & indirectly), it just seems like all of these various stimulous things aren't being very well thought out & that there may be alternative ways to accomplish the same goals.
08-08-09, 08:42 PM
#51
*sigh* because America isn't racking up enough debt already ...
Sorry guys, I see where this whole idea is going (both directly & indirectly), it just seems like all of these various stimulous things aren't being very well thought out & that there may be alternative ways to accomplish the same goals.
Sorry guys, I see where this whole idea is going (both directly & indirectly), it just seems like all of these various stimulous things aren't being very well thought out & that there may be alternative ways to accomplish the same goals.
08-10-09, 12:49 AM
#53
it sucks that they capped the car trade in for '84 and older. there are many clunkers in the '70s and early '80s that could easily be traded in for newer, more fuel efficient vehicles on the road today. for them to put an arbitrary model year does no justice other than to leave others out. ive seen many of my family friends be left in the dust by car dealerships because their cars do not qualify for the CARS program. its a shame, but rules are rules i guess...
08-14-09, 06:26 PM
#54
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i took advantage of the cars program.
i hadn't originally intended to, but while actually on the phone with a dealer negotiating a deal, i saw a commercial on the program. i had heard some radio ads on it, but never really paid attention to it. so, when i got off the phone i started looking into it more. i had an '86 F-150 (ellie, which was short for elephant, because it was a big grey truck) that we used as a work truck for landscaping and whatever else we needed it for. it was in decent condition (i kind of took offense to people referring to it as a clunker
) but it was old and in the next 9-12 months it was going to need some care. i went to the cars website and started reading. ellie was rated at 12 mpg. bettywhite (our new is250) was rated at 22. just qualified for the $4,500 credit.
problem was that the dealer was 2 hours away and i needed to drive ellie up there. this caused me some concern but she made it without problem.
beyond the mpg requirements, there are clean title and one year's proof of continuous insurance and registration from the date of the trade. and, as mentioned above, the credit is in addition to any salvage value (with the dealer allowed to keep $50 of this salvage value for administrative purposes). this is as stated by the law. it is not trade-in value. coincidentally, salvage on ellie was $50. i kind of laughed when the dealer told me this, but i had checked with some local salvage yards and had been quoted anywhere from $100-$300, so i wasn't surprised.
i have mixed feelings about the program. it clearly worked out nicely for me - i received $4,500 for a 24 year old truck that had a market value of $1,200-$1,500. however, as stipulated by law, the dealer is required to destroy the drivetrain by adding liquid glass to the engine. ellie was not pretty and as mentioned, she was going to need some work, but there are many people that cannot afford new vehicles and are in the market for vehicles under $2,000 - especially old f-150's where there is an abundance of inexpensive replacement parts for repairs. yes, i understand the emissions issue, and i am in favor of doing what we can to improve that situation. however, under the rules of the program, i traded a vehicle rated at 12mpg that was driven maybe 3,000 miles/year for a vehicle rated at 22mpg that will be driven at least 20,000 milles/year.
i hadn't originally intended to, but while actually on the phone with a dealer negotiating a deal, i saw a commercial on the program. i had heard some radio ads on it, but never really paid attention to it. so, when i got off the phone i started looking into it more. i had an '86 F-150 (ellie, which was short for elephant, because it was a big grey truck) that we used as a work truck for landscaping and whatever else we needed it for. it was in decent condition (i kind of took offense to people referring to it as a clunker
) but it was old and in the next 9-12 months it was going to need some care. i went to the cars website and started reading. ellie was rated at 12 mpg. bettywhite (our new is250) was rated at 22. just qualified for the $4,500 credit. problem was that the dealer was 2 hours away and i needed to drive ellie up there. this caused me some concern but she made it without problem.
beyond the mpg requirements, there are clean title and one year's proof of continuous insurance and registration from the date of the trade. and, as mentioned above, the credit is in addition to any salvage value (with the dealer allowed to keep $50 of this salvage value for administrative purposes). this is as stated by the law. it is not trade-in value. coincidentally, salvage on ellie was $50. i kind of laughed when the dealer told me this, but i had checked with some local salvage yards and had been quoted anywhere from $100-$300, so i wasn't surprised.
i have mixed feelings about the program. it clearly worked out nicely for me - i received $4,500 for a 24 year old truck that had a market value of $1,200-$1,500. however, as stipulated by law, the dealer is required to destroy the drivetrain by adding liquid glass to the engine. ellie was not pretty and as mentioned, she was going to need some work, but there are many people that cannot afford new vehicles and are in the market for vehicles under $2,000 - especially old f-150's where there is an abundance of inexpensive replacement parts for repairs. yes, i understand the emissions issue, and i am in favor of doing what we can to improve that situation. however, under the rules of the program, i traded a vehicle rated at 12mpg that was driven maybe 3,000 miles/year for a vehicle rated at 22mpg that will be driven at least 20,000 milles/year.
08-14-09, 06:30 PM
#55
Our family took advantage of it. We had a '95 Toyota Previa Van that was beginning to cause problems after 330,000 miles. There was a problem with the AC that would cause the engine to stall, and it got 18 mpg, the limit. Traded it in and got $3500 towards a '10 RX350. Mom couldn't be any happier.
Trading in your car...$3500
Getting in an RX350...$39,000
Listening to mom try to talk to the Navigation...priceless.
Trading in your car...$3500
Getting in an RX350...$39,000
Listening to mom try to talk to the Navigation...priceless.
08-15-09, 06:58 AM
#57
But here's what's messed up about this entire thing, and I've been really annoyed at it for a while now. This is basically a massive subsidy initiated by the American government on behalf of both American, but primarily Japanese corporations, at a huge expense to taxpayers, low income used car buyers, and charities that relied car donations.
I was really excited when I first heard about the program. I have a 1991 Acura Legend that is running fine, but is starting to show signs of developing significant problems. At 18 MPG, it just qualifies, but I would have to get a 28 MPG sedan or 23 MPG SUV to get the $4500. 23 MPG SUVs all suck, especially the 4 cylinder RAV-4, with its 4-speed transmission basically negating the MPG benefits of a weak engine vs a V6 6-speed. Camry Hybrid or Prius was basically the way to go.
In July, before the program started and dealers were hurting, my colleague at work got $6000 off MSRP for a Camry Hybrid. I was really excited by that point, waiting for the CARS program to start so I could get a massive $9000 net off MSRP (Legend was still worth $1 to $1.5K). Of course, as many of you know, the program was such a "success", the dealers won't even bother helping you if you went in with any thoughts of negotiations. The dealer told me that they only have new cars for 2 more weeks at this rate, and that they are all moving at MSRP. Therefore, I'm now better off just waiting until the economy dies again (which it will) and dealers are left with all the extra people they hired (which they did). If they don't keep the program running forever, there's going to be some ugly Year over Year comparisons one day....
I really don't get this. We've got people in this country struggling to pay their mortgage bills, and the government introduces a taxpayer funded program that basically encourages people to trade in usable transportation that is fully paid for in exchange for a new car priced at MSRP which would necessitate for most people additional debt. I don't get how some people think that because they got an extra 1 or 2K on their trade in, it's suddenly "NEW CAR TIME!!!!". And they are too stupid to realize that 1) their "clunker", has far more value to them as usable transportation than what Blue Book says, and 2) You could have gotten a bigger net discount if you just bought when the dealers are dealing....
In the end, the people holding the bag are people like me, who is a tax payer who was ready to pay cash in full for my new car but unwilling to pay above what should have been a natural market price (econ 101 says subsidies and tariffs that affect the market equilibrium are never a good thing and lead to dead weight losses). But people that are hurt even more are the people in the low income brackets that needed a $1500 or $3500 car to get them around or to give to their kids to pick up their siblings from school. I remember when my family was not well off, our first car was a $1000 Mercury Montego. It sucked really bad, but it was what we could afford. Now, that car would cost triple because of the lack of used cars out there. And of course, the charities that relied on car donations are not getting what they need either, cuz who wants a tax deduction off a $1000 when you can get $4500 for a brand new car?
Gotta love the mentality of "The American Dream." I guess it's a fundamental American right for every person to have 1) Home ownership, 2) A new car 3) Government provided health care. All this, regardless of income or ability to pay... love it.
I was really excited when I first heard about the program. I have a 1991 Acura Legend that is running fine, but is starting to show signs of developing significant problems. At 18 MPG, it just qualifies, but I would have to get a 28 MPG sedan or 23 MPG SUV to get the $4500. 23 MPG SUVs all suck, especially the 4 cylinder RAV-4, with its 4-speed transmission basically negating the MPG benefits of a weak engine vs a V6 6-speed. Camry Hybrid or Prius was basically the way to go.
In July, before the program started and dealers were hurting, my colleague at work got $6000 off MSRP for a Camry Hybrid. I was really excited by that point, waiting for the CARS program to start so I could get a massive $9000 net off MSRP (Legend was still worth $1 to $1.5K). Of course, as many of you know, the program was such a "success", the dealers won't even bother helping you if you went in with any thoughts of negotiations. The dealer told me that they only have new cars for 2 more weeks at this rate, and that they are all moving at MSRP. Therefore, I'm now better off just waiting until the economy dies again (which it will) and dealers are left with all the extra people they hired (which they did). If they don't keep the program running forever, there's going to be some ugly Year over Year comparisons one day....
I really don't get this. We've got people in this country struggling to pay their mortgage bills, and the government introduces a taxpayer funded program that basically encourages people to trade in usable transportation that is fully paid for in exchange for a new car priced at MSRP which would necessitate for most people additional debt. I don't get how some people think that because they got an extra 1 or 2K on their trade in, it's suddenly "NEW CAR TIME!!!!". And they are too stupid to realize that 1) their "clunker", has far more value to them as usable transportation than what Blue Book says, and 2) You could have gotten a bigger net discount if you just bought when the dealers are dealing....
In the end, the people holding the bag are people like me, who is a tax payer who was ready to pay cash in full for my new car but unwilling to pay above what should have been a natural market price (econ 101 says subsidies and tariffs that affect the market equilibrium are never a good thing and lead to dead weight losses). But people that are hurt even more are the people in the low income brackets that needed a $1500 or $3500 car to get them around or to give to their kids to pick up their siblings from school. I remember when my family was not well off, our first car was a $1000 Mercury Montego. It sucked really bad, but it was what we could afford. Now, that car would cost triple because of the lack of used cars out there. And of course, the charities that relied on car donations are not getting what they need either, cuz who wants a tax deduction off a $1000 when you can get $4500 for a brand new car?
Gotta love the mentality of "The American Dream." I guess it's a fundamental American right for every person to have 1) Home ownership, 2) A new car 3) Government provided health care. All this, regardless of income or ability to pay... love it.
08-15-09, 07:31 AM
#58
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sirkfc - some good points.
however, dealers that use the cars program as an excuse to justify msrp are idiots and are just trying to do what they do best (worst). most people that are buying a new car, don't have a CARS-eligible trade, so i find it odd that a dealer would claim he/she isn't willing to move off msrp because of this program. i know the amount of my discount had nothing to do with the program because i never mentioned i wanted to take advantage of the program until after i was happy with the price. i suspect there are some dealers out there trying to play this, but i hope it's isolated.
however, dealers that use the cars program as an excuse to justify msrp are idiots and are just trying to do what they do best (worst). most people that are buying a new car, don't have a CARS-eligible trade, so i find it odd that a dealer would claim he/she isn't willing to move off msrp because of this program. i know the amount of my discount had nothing to do with the program because i never mentioned i wanted to take advantage of the program until after i was happy with the price. i suspect there are some dealers out there trying to play this, but i hope it's isolated.
08-15-09, 08:37 AM
#59
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It definitely affects the amount of negotiation you can do, but the toyota dealer that we purchased a new Venza from did give us a little bit of room in terms of negotiation