Just don't understand why Camry can outsell Accord.
07-29-09, 06:57 PM
#46
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I think was Phil is saying is there are those that will cross shop and buy the Euro Accord (TSX) over the USDM Accord hurting Accord sales b/c the two cars prices can be the same. A TSX can be had under 30k like an Accord EX V-6.
This is a really good point no one has mentioned yet.
It does seem people love the fact their Camry is related to a Lexus. The Lexus "halo" glows down onto the Camry. Very good observation!
Do u have a link to support what you are saying?
Look at this. Altima is the rental king.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...domestics.html
This is a really good point no one has mentioned yet.
It does seem people love the fact their Camry is related to a Lexus. The Lexus "halo" glows down onto the Camry. Very good observation!Do u have a link to support what you are saying?
Look at this. Altima is the rental king.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...domestics.html
Last edited by teeder27; 07-29-09 at 07:01 PM.
07-29-09, 07:19 PM
#47
That's what I've been saying all along too. Honda rarely sells to fleet and if they do, it's a VERY small number due to pricing. In fact, fleet sale sale counts towards retail sales also. Take out the fleets for both camry and accord, and you should have two very close sales number.
civic vs corolla is no different either, although corolla sells more since their lineup is cheaper vs the equivalent civic..
civic vs corolla is no different either, although corolla sells more since their lineup is cheaper vs the equivalent civic..
07-29-09, 07:35 PM
#48
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Its no different than the guy in the 320 who has "M3" aspirations and loves the fact that BMW produces such cars and has great success. They want to be associated with the "halo" the "M" cars represent.
This is not like a new finding or anything. We just never really talked about it before and its a great point.
My cousin and her husband for instance are Toyota/Lexus fans but didn't have one. They looked at a bunch of midsize cars last fall. In talking to both (and my cousin is a car chick) they WILL EVENTUALLY get a Lexus but for right now they decided to get the almost Lexus in a Camry SE. Rarely is the ES actually mentioned in conversation. What is mentioned is LEXUS and how they will buy one next go round.
Last edited by LexFather; 07-29-09 at 07:38 PM.
07-29-09, 07:40 PM
#49
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Thank you and please ignore him. He is only here to post pro Honda stuff, twist words, incite flames and already had a post deleted in this thread.
Its no different than the guy in the 320 who has "M3" aspirations and loves the fact that BMW produces such cars and has great success. They want to be associated with the "halo" the "M" cars represent.
This is not like a new finding or anything. We just never really talked about it before and its a great point.
Its no different than the guy in the 320 who has "M3" aspirations and loves the fact that BMW produces such cars and has great success. They want to be associated with the "halo" the "M" cars represent.
This is not like a new finding or anything. We just never really talked about it before and its a great point.
07-29-09, 07:48 PM
#50
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sea...archid=4087962
Any member can review and see that 90% of your posts are in Honda/Acura threads, like this one. Amazing you popped up for this thread to have a post deleted and to TWIST my words.
FWIW I think the Accord is better than the Camry.
You won't quote that though. You will only post/twist and flame what you disagree with. You guys really need to take some sort of debate course.
07-29-09, 08:21 PM
#51
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lol wut? Here are your posts. You even started a thread we had to close that was pro-Honda/Acura.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sea...archid=4087962
Any member can review and see that 90% of your posts are in Honda/Acura threads, like this one. Amazing you popped up for this thread to have a post deleted and to TWIST my words.
FWIW I think the Accord is better than the Camry. You won't quote that though. You will only post/twist and flame what you disagree with.
You guys really need to take some sort of debate course.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sea...archid=4087962
Any member can review and see that 90% of your posts are in Honda/Acura threads, like this one. Amazing you popped up for this thread to have a post deleted and to TWIST my words.
FWIW I think the Accord is better than the Camry.
You won't quote that though. You will only post/twist and flame what you disagree with. You guys really need to take some sort of debate course.
07-29-09, 08:50 PM
#52
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I have owned 4 Acuras (91 Legend Coupe, 00 Integra Type R, 03 TL Type S, and 05 TL ASPEC) and I have always been a fan of Honda. My wife had an 87 Prelude and a 1998 Accord. The new models just do not do anything for us. My wife is into cars, and she does not like the way the new Acura line up looks. She said she could drive the TSX, but would rather look at another brand instead. The new Accord looks terrible in comparison to the new Camry. This is the worst looking Accord I have seen since the 1980 model. Do not even get me started on the new TL. The MDX is the only decent looking Acura minus the front beak like grill.
All of the new Lexus cars are elegant yet discreet. The Toyota line up seems to follow the Lexus pattern, while Honda has chosen to go with the edgier designs. Normally, I would always pick a Honda over a Toyota, but this has changed in the past two years. Maybe, it is just me getting older.
All of the new Lexus cars are elegant yet discreet. The Toyota line up seems to follow the Lexus pattern, while Honda has chosen to go with the edgier designs. Normally, I would always pick a Honda over a Toyota, but this has changed in the past two years. Maybe, it is just me getting older.
07-29-09, 10:52 PM
#53
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The gap is closing, mostly due to Toyota's drop in quality in the latest Camry, but partly due to how well crafted the current Accord is. Next year will be interesting to see. If the trend continues, the Accord may actually come away with the title because their wagon that is coming out at the end of the year, the Crosstour, is officially the Accord Crosstour, and depending on how well it sells, it could help Honda usurp the crown from Toyota.
As for why the Accord outsells the Camry? Well, it is a bit more expensive than the Camry.
As for why the Accord outsells the Camry? Well, it is a bit more expensive than the Camry.
07-30-09, 02:16 AM
#56
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Its called a "halo" effect. IS350jet makes a great point. People buying a Camry are more inclined to do so b/c of its relationship with Lexus as they respect and revere Lexus and its accomplishments. Thus their Camry is "a poor mans Lexus". In contrast Accord buyers don't feel the same way in regards to Acura and in many ways feel their Accord is just as good/superior for a lesser price.
So in summary the Lexus/Camry relationship helps to sell Camrys. I think it is a great point!
So in summary the Lexus/Camry relationship helps to sell Camrys. I think it is a great point!
Moreover, your assertion that the Camry is a "poor mans Lexus" is flawed because the ES is based off the Camry, not the other way around. If you want to make the situation seem any different from the Accord and TL, you are again skating on thin ice as you can't reasonable justify that the Camry/ES combination is any different from the Accord/TL one. The TL doesn't feel like a real luxury car compared to, let's say your GS, much in the same way the similarly priced ES doesn't either. Cars like the Audi A6, Lexus GS, and 5-Series aren't some sort of guised up mid-sized family car, they were built with an emphasis on premium from day one. The fundamentals are different, and since I know you are agreeing with all of this applying to the TL, I think it's safe to say the ES falls into the same category. Just go sit in the car itself - it isn't constructed or built like a true luxury car - it feels forced, because it is, it's a modified Camry. Drives like one too. No way in hell you are going to compete with anything but other high-end Buicks on the market with a dynamically incompetent car like that. But I give it credit for at least not trying to make some failed attempt to be a BMW (Acura TL). In the end the formula works for Lexus, and the ES is a great seller. Therefore I am not implying they should suddenly drop the car, but I think we need to be both honest and realistic about what the car is, and clearly is not.
Last edited by FKL; 07-30-09 at 02:26 AM.
07-30-09, 03:07 AM
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The gap is closing, mostly due to Toyota's drop in quality in the latest Camry, but partly due to how well crafted the current Accord is. Next year will be interesting to see. If the trend continues, the Accord may actually come away with the title because their wagon that is coming out at the end of the year, the Crosstour, is officially the Accord Crosstour, and depending on how well it sells, it could help Honda usurp the crown from Toyota.
As for why the Accord outsells the Camry? Well, it is a bit more expensive than the Camry.
As for why the Accord outsells the Camry? Well, it is a bit more expensive than the Camry.
Nice try though
07-30-09, 03:26 AM
#58
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Uh, I doubt you can prove that anybody buying the majority of Camry's sold (LE 4-Cylinder) do so because of some imaginary "halo effect" of the platform being shared with the Lexus ES350. I'd be willing to wager than not even a forth of Camry customers know or even care about the similarities. So I fail to see how this point is such a grand observation.
I doubt you can DISPROVE IT so why try on a a Lexus forum? Does that theory upset you that much??? Its clearly not the sole reason but IS350Jet brings up a good point that it can HELP sales. Why is that such a bitter proposal?
Moreover, your assertion that the Camry is a "poor mans Lexus" is flawed because the ES is based off the Camry, not the other way around.
How is it "flawed" b/c you disagree with it?
The Camry has ALWAYS been the poor mans Lexus. The Maxima the poor mans 5 series.
If you want to make the situation seem any different from the Accord and TL, you are again skating on thin ice as you can't reasonable justify that the Camry/ES combination is any different from the Accord/TL one. The TL doesn't feel like a real luxury car compared to, let's say your GS, much in the same way the similarly priced ES doesn't either.
In your HASTE to argue again, you missed the entire POINT. Did you miss the entire part where I said Its not about sharing with the ES, its about being related to a LEXUS. In other words, its more the BRAND relation not the specific CAR relation.
Cars like the Audi A6, Lexus GS, and 5-Series aren't some sort of guised up mid-sized family car, they were built with an emphasis on premium from day one. The fundamentals are different, and since I know you are agreeing with all of this applying to the TL, I think it's safe to say the ES falls into the same category. Just go sit in the car itself - it isn't constructed or built like a true luxury car - it feels forced, because it is, it's a modified Camry. Drives like one too. No way in hell you are going to compete with anything but other high-end Buicks on the market with a dynamically incompetent car like that.
WTF are you talking about? This has NOTHING to do with our thread. Its just another LAME LAME LAME attempt to crap on the ES.
But I give it credit for at least not trying to make some failed attempt to be a BMW (Acura TL). In the end the formula works for Lexus, and the ES is a great seller. Therefore I am not implying they should suddenly drop the car, but I think we need to be both honest and realistic about what the car is, and clearly is not.
Again what on earth are you talking about?
I doubt you can DISPROVE IT so why try on a a Lexus forum? Does that theory upset you that much??? Its clearly not the sole reason but IS350Jet brings up a good point that it can HELP sales. Why is that such a bitter proposal?
Moreover, your assertion that the Camry is a "poor mans Lexus" is flawed because the ES is based off the Camry, not the other way around.
How is it "flawed" b/c you disagree with it?
The Camry has ALWAYS been the poor mans Lexus. The Maxima the poor mans 5 series. If you want to make the situation seem any different from the Accord and TL, you are again skating on thin ice as you can't reasonable justify that the Camry/ES combination is any different from the Accord/TL one. The TL doesn't feel like a real luxury car compared to, let's say your GS, much in the same way the similarly priced ES doesn't either.
In your HASTE to argue again, you missed the entire POINT. Did you miss the entire part where I said Its not about sharing with the ES, its about being related to a LEXUS. In other words, its more the BRAND relation not the specific CAR relation.
Cars like the Audi A6, Lexus GS, and 5-Series aren't some sort of guised up mid-sized family car, they were built with an emphasis on premium from day one. The fundamentals are different, and since I know you are agreeing with all of this applying to the TL, I think it's safe to say the ES falls into the same category. Just go sit in the car itself - it isn't constructed or built like a true luxury car - it feels forced, because it is, it's a modified Camry. Drives like one too. No way in hell you are going to compete with anything but other high-end Buicks on the market with a dynamically incompetent car like that.
WTF are you talking about? This has NOTHING to do with our thread. Its just another LAME LAME LAME attempt to crap on the ES.
But I give it credit for at least not trying to make some failed attempt to be a BMW (Acura TL). In the end the formula works for Lexus, and the ES is a great seller. Therefore I am not implying they should suddenly drop the car, but I think we need to be both honest and realistic about what the car is, and clearly is not.
Again what on earth are you talking about?
I strongly suggest READING EMPHATICALLY before just posting and twisting posts and not really listening to what people are saying.
07-30-09, 03:40 AM
#59
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That link displays no results for me, and I find it hard to believe I posted anything pro acura or honda because I see very little worthy of praise coming out of Honda/Acura these days unless it was about older generations. Nevertheless I am a car enthusiast who finds far more fault in other brands than the ugly, but reliable stuff coming from Honda/Acura. Why would I quote you liking honda? for cudos or praise? Of course I speak up when I have a problem with something I read, the fact that this is mostly in honda/acura threads means I generally have problems with the bashing that goes on in them. I'm also willing to bet you have more posts in honda/acura threads than I do.
So many of your posts are deleted b/c you come in here "Search" Honda/Acura and then post flaming crap. Like you are doing AGAIN in here. Here is a reality check. If you are not in this thread to try at least do your usual Honda defense but instead to incite flames and twist peoples words, GET OUT. We don't need that. Here are a few
Defending Acura again
Whats with all the hate and snarkiness? This is a good thing for acura, a good thing for consumers, and even a good thing for Lexus enthusiasts. There's nothing like a competitor stepping up to the plate and setting a new safety bar that will help spur Lexus and other manufacturers to do the same.
I seem to recall Volvo's looking like bricks on wheels, but due to their safety reputation, still doing quite well, so dont discount acura just for having...less than appealing vehicles at the moment.
I seem to recall Volvo's looking like bricks on wheels, but due to their safety reputation, still doing quite well, so dont discount acura just for having...less than appealing vehicles at the moment.