CDNROCKIES

I don't recall anyone saying that they aren't "good" cars. The discussion is whether or not they can become true Tier 1 vehicles. Clearly they are not, and will not be for quite some time, if ever.

Looks are a subjective thing. I would agree that many of the previous generations were appealing. However, the direction they have chosen recently has been a complete and total disaster.

I'm not quite sure how an underpowered, fwd car can be truly "fun" to drive....but again, that is somewhat subjective.

FKL

Anybody elses eyes roll to the back of their head when they read about their big "fuel saving push" consisting not of real technologies like direct injection, but 6-Speed automatic slushboxes? Then going on to spin them as some sort of innovative, revolutionary technology?

I mean my god, how far behind is Honda/Acura? I know I may sound like a broken record sometimes, but this is actually relevant - VW is dropping their 6-Speed Tiptronic next year in the Passat and CC and outfitting them exclusively with 6-Speed Dual Clutch DSG units. I mean my god Acura is almost a decade behind here, and they get off touting their desire for fuel saving technologies? They are clearly living in a bizarre, deluded alter-reality.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Right, but consider this.

1) In the past Acura vehicles were a great value. Yes, they were never quite comparable to Lexus, MB or BMW, however they were nicely made, and the price tags were attractive. The previous gen TSX was starting at 27k topping out at 29, the TL was 32-34k. The old RSX/Integra were high teens/low 20ies as well. The MDX was cheaper than RX, and when launched there were only few SUVs based on non-truck platform.

2) Designs - Acuras used to be designed nicely on the outside and on the inside. Now they are beyond ugly on the outside, and as you numerously stated in your reviews, their interiors are cheapened as well.

3) Technology - Acura/Honda once were technology leadeds when it came to engine power output. The NSX with 290hp V6, the 90ies TL-S with 260hp V6, S2000 with 240hp i4, RSX-S with 200hp i4, older Integras GSR and Type R, Civic SI, all with high output i4's. But they stopped there and havent made any progress since 2000's, besides upping the displacement to get a bit more power from the same old engines. The competition since then has caught up and surpassed. For instance in the past when you compared TL-S with 260hp to ES300 with 190hp, 325/330 with 180/225hp, C class with no hp, the TL did make a lot of sense. But right now things are reversed. The TL pretty much has the lowest output in its class.

4) Competition - Back in the days there wasnt much competition for Acura. Their now discontinued Integra/RSX were in a class of its own, the bread and butter TL competed pretty much with ES, 3, and I30 and fared very well. The RL was always a failure. The TSX was nicely priced which also put it in the class of its own. The MDX was the right product at the right time. But look at the competition now. The big three (Lexus/MB/BMW) have expanded their range and became more competitive, Infiniti is extremely competitive with their G and M, Audi's no longer scream rebadged Jetta/Passat. And then you have new players - Hundai with Azera and Genesis, Caddy with the CTS and of course Lincoln MKS and MKZ.

And to make matters worse, in these economic times, the competition is willing to make discounts. A friend of mine just bought a G37x for 32k after 6k discount. Do you think anyone would be mad enought to buy a 32k TSX instead? Or a similarly equipped fugly TL for 38k?

I predict tough times for Acura unless they become a lot more competitive.

IS350jet

Sad to see Acura with such high-in-the-sky dreams. Acura seems to be the only one that can't see it. Before they can progress into tier one, they need to refocus, reorganize, get back on track to who they are, or should I say were. The biggest problem I see at Acura is the fact that they don't know who they are anymore. What's worse is, they don't even know who their customers are!

The G Man

Acura calling them self tier one is surely delusional, in fact the company as a whole is delusion about what the consumer wants and what the market demands. IMO, they might have been tier one back in the 80s when they made the legend and the NSX, soon after that, they drop to tier two. With their recent power train and design directions, they are on the verge of dropping to tier three if there were such a thing. Acura needs to read some of these forums on the internet and get their head out of the sand. If they research public opinions, they will know that even some of the most Acura diehards have jump ship.

mmarshall

Even back then, they weren't really in Tier1 terrritory either. That was generally held by Mercedes and BMW. BMW, especially, was the prestige car for the American Yuppies of the 1980s


The silly-looking grilles and the cheapening 2009-2010 interiors of the TSX and TL did more to drive people away than the drivetrains. But, to counteract that, some people who formerly stayed away have been attracted to the new Acuras by the superb SH-AWD.

The G Man

I ahve driven 2 different Acuras with SH-AWD, it does improve handling but not to the point where it handles as good as a BMW or an Audi Quattro. BTW BMW and Audi have their own version of SH-AWD on the market.

wmb0000

This I agreed with you, but you have to remember TL is a much bigger car than the BMW 3 series and the Audi A4.

I drove the BMW 530IX and it's similar size to the current TL and it does not handle anything like the 3 series IX version. It's handling is comparable to the TL AWD, but that just me.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I agree. In the late 90s Honda was considered an engine technology pioneer and now companies like Hyundai and (soon) Kia have truly surpassed their technical expertise.

Lexus and BMW have 8 speed automatics, Mercedes uses 7 speed units, VW and Audi have DSGs, Nissan has CVTs....and Honda just came up with their first 6AT?

Not to mention that Honda has fallen sorely behind Toyota, Ford, GM and BMW in terms of hybrid technology, when at one point they looked to be the leader of that too.

leedogg

The way I see it, Acura seems to be telling their customers what they will want as opposed to listening to the customers about what they actually do want. You need look no further than the latest shield grill designs to know that those would have never made it past a sample test audience. It's like they cared about one factor only: that it stands out and is noticeable...and probably thought the new design would grow on people.

IS-SV

Visually (almost as ugly) it reminds me of the failed Subaru experiment with the ugly Edsel-like grill, and that thing (according to some of their lame Marketing people at the time) was supposed to become a signature grill across the entire product line. The rest is history, including the stupid grill.

LexFather

Acura is full of crap and their management knows it. Here they are saying "we will do luxury our way and not like everyone else" when;
1. They went from having original names like Legend/Vigor/Integra etc to CL/CSX/TL etc b/c "THATS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES IN THE LUXURY MARKET"
2. They went from having different looking vehicles to now a uniform beak b/c THATS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES IN THE LUXURY MARKET"


Acura again is behind the times. This "hey look at me I'm ugly" styling is polarizing and screams "I am a kid that wants attention". Well that time has passed as the economy has faltered and conspicuous consumption is not in vogue. For example fashion designers have recently completely reversed the trend of larger and larger "labels" on clothes. . Now Bangle and BMW (and a few others) look like a GENIUS b/c their polarizing and "hey hey, over here, look at me" styling was appropriate for the "fast times", when the economy was great, when everyone was spending money and "Bling" was in. In retrospect BMW looks like a genius as they now have gone from revolutionary to evolutionary and toning things down, perfect for the times now.

Also to BMWs credit they have the kahunas to back up their polarizing styling. Tons of technology, turbos, V-8s, active steering, M cars, you name it. While not all the cars have these options it is there as an option. So if you have a "hey look at me M6" well even if you don't like it (for instance I am not a fan), you cannot deny the fact it has a V-10, huge brakes, its tuned at the "ring" etc.

Acura does not offer that. They offer the "hey look at me styling" and totally missed the important part. I mean seriously imagine owning a new TL.

-Egads, what is that
"Its the new Acura TL"
-Wow, its huge, that front end is very attention grabbing
"Yeah I like the styling"
-That thing must have a V-8!
"Uhh, no actually it has a V-6"
-With turbos right? I mean look at it, it has to have 400hp right?
"Uhh, no but it is the most powerful Acura ever built"
-So 350? The new Taurus has 355, can u believe that?
"Uhh, well it has 306hp
-Oh, well I bet its fast as hell then, it is the most powerful Acura
"Uhh, well its fast to me"
-Faster than a 335 or IS 350 or G37?
"Uhh, no it does 0-60 in the mid 6 second range"
-Dude, my sisters Accord does 0-60 in under 5 seconds
"Well I do have Nav and its nice"
-I have NAV too and I bought a Tom Tom for my other car
"Well it does have SH-AWD"
-SH-AWD? What is that?
"Its super handing AWD, it means its the best AWD"
-Like Superman Handles it or something? I don't understand
"I can't really explain it but on the back of the car it says Super Handling and from the internet, people say it like handles really good at the track, better than anything"
-Sweet, so when have you tried it at the track?
"What, the track, no I would never track this, I don't even know where one is"
-but you said the Super AWD kicks *** at the track
"It does"
-so has anyone taken it to the track
"Uhh, well no"

Nice knowing you. Delete my number from your phone.

mmarshall

Will those DSG-equpped Passats and CCs be available in the American market, though? Audi, VW's cousin, is doing the opposite........they are phasing the S-Tronic (their version of the DSG) out of the American market, and restricting it more and more to Europe. Right now, I don't think Audi, here in America, still offers it in anything other than a few limited A3 models.

I'm with you.....I'm a big fan of the DSG/S-Tronic, and think it is one of the best transmissions on the market. I've complained to Audi reps about this (even as a Subaru fan, I would not rule out a Quattro/S-Tronic purchase) but they cite the usual reason....money. They claim, perhaps (?) with some justification, that the DSG/S-Tronic is too complex and expensive to produce and repair, and there is not ehough demand for it in America.

OK...back to Acura, the thread topic, but I did want to get that question in.

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iTrader: (1)

Guess that's one less facebook friend

madmax2k1

I just noticed that the EPA mpg on their RL is 16/City 22/Hwy. WTF??

If fuel economy is the reason they use V6 engines in their flagship, then they failed miserably.

For comparison, the RWD LS460 averages 16/24 mpg with a V8.