ACURA says it can achieve Tier-1 status without RWD and V8s
08-01-09, 02:09 PM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
08-01-09, 02:37 PM
#63
I think for starters, If Acura wants to be a Tier 1 player, they need to have a flagship that is more distinctive than its sibling. Both the current RL and TL seem to be stepping on each others toes. They are within 1 inch in length of each other, both offer essentially the same power/powertrain. I honestly believe the TL is the better car IMO. I think the same could be said of Infiniti's lineup. The G and M are different, but the M isn't really much of a flagship. I think they need to resurrect the Q as a former flagship. My $.02
08-01-09, 02:53 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
I think for starters, If Acura wants to be a Tier 1 player, they need to have a flagship that is more distinctive than its sibling. Both the current RL and TL seem to be stepping on each others toes. They are within 1 inch in length of each other, both offer essentially the same power/powertrain. I honestly believe the TL is the better car IMO.
08-01-09, 03:45 PM
#65
Pole Position
Facts are bashing? Don't start flames and accuse people of bashing when they r not.
No one said the engines were bad. They r solid. They r also outmuscled and offer much less efficiency than Lexus and even Infiniti.
You also r not mentioning the 306hp engine is a 3.7 liter not a 3.5 so it's bigger but offers no more power than Lexus and less than Infiniti.
Awd hurts mpg but it should not be a cop out. The GS AWD is more efficient and a full second faster 0-60.
Now that's what I call technology and "advance".
Just for comparisons sake the ***** out 5.0 liter 416hp IS-F gets the same mpg as the 300hp 3.7 RL.
That's genius.
No one said the engines were bad. They r solid. They r also outmuscled and offer much less efficiency than Lexus and even Infiniti.
You also r not mentioning the 306hp engine is a 3.7 liter not a 3.5 so it's bigger but offers no more power than Lexus and less than Infiniti.
Awd hurts mpg but it should not be a cop out. The GS AWD is more efficient and a full second faster 0-60.
Now that's what I call technology and "advance".
Just for comparisons sake the ***** out 5.0 liter 416hp IS-F gets the same mpg as the 300hp 3.7 RL.
That's genius.
Now only if Acura/Honda would build a decent 6 or 7 speed tranny to go along with it.
Last edited by IS350jet; 08-01-09 at 03:48 PM.
08-01-09, 05:28 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
A SOHC or single overhead camshaft engine uses a single camshaft on the head to lift all the valves, whereas in a DOHC or double overhead camshaft head, two camshafts are used to lift the valves (a camshaft each for intake and exhaust valves).
A DOHC layout is better than a SOHC layout in many ways- in DOHCs, the valve timing is more precise, and better valve lift is achieved. also, a DOHC setup eliminates the need for rocker arms, hence creating better timing, and valve contact is more direct too. A SOHC layout, when tuned, can be as efficient as a DOHC, but with similar tuning, DOHCs always achieve more power than SOHCs.
We can have some of the folks with better mechanical engineering backgrounds add some additional info on the subject too.
08-01-09, 05:37 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Just trying to point out the fact that many people here criticize (not bash, okay?) Acura for having an underwhelming engine. The fact is, it is HP competitive even without DI or DOHC's Yes, it is a 3.7 but even the 3.5 RL had 290HP nix DOHC and DI. The point is, it takes Lexus and Infiniti DI to squeeze that much HP out of their engines. Honda can do it without DI. Truly, if Acura goes DI in the TL, it will have class leading HP that Lexus or Infiniti can't touch, at least not yet.
Now only if Acura/Honda would build a decent 6 or 7 speed tranny to go along with it.
Now only if Acura/Honda would build a decent 6 or 7 speed tranny to go along with it.
. lacking DOHC (see my post above why SOHC results in less power)
. lacking DI (and the power and fuel efficiency that goes with DI)
. lacking 6/7/8 speed auto trannys
. lacking RWD option
. lacking V8 option
. lacking tasteful styling
There is the Readers Digest version, enough of the Acura excuses.
08-01-09, 05:39 PM
#68
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08-01-09, 05:41 PM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
CHIT CHAT is often irrelevant, no big deal. Don't expect much meat here about Lexus cars, you will find that in the other sections (which by the way have very good model-specific information that can be very helpful to owners).
08-01-09, 05:57 PM
#70
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I understand that, but D@Mn, it's the same ole spit, the beak, no RWD, etc, etc. If you’re not in the market for an Acura why do you give a PUCK? This spit has been beaten to death. I don’t understand why the same users continue to say the same spit. Acura SUCKS, we get it. If they suck SO much why do you take time out of your life to criticize them? Just let Acura DIE.
08-01-09, 06:01 PM
#71
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The interior of the new TL sucks too. I don't see how anybody could seriously defend the hard cheap plastics they use. Doesn't feel luke a car in the same class as a 3series or A4 - just feels cheaper
08-01-09, 06:19 PM
#73
A SOHC or single overhead camshaft engine uses a single camshaft on the head to lift all the valves, whereas in a DOHC or double overhead camshaft head, two camshafts are used to lift the valves (a camshaft each for intake and exhaust valves).
A DOHC layout is better than a SOHC layout in many ways- in DOHCs, the valve timing is more precise, and better valve lift is achieved. also, a DOHC setup eliminates the need for rocker arms, hence creating better timing, and valve contact is more direct too. A SOHC layout, when tuned, can be as efficient as a DOHC, but with similar tuning, DOHCs always achieve more power than SOHCs.
A DOHC layout is better than a SOHC layout in many ways- in DOHCs, the valve timing is more precise, and better valve lift is achieved. also, a DOHC setup eliminates the need for rocker arms, hence creating better timing, and valve contact is more direct too. A SOHC layout, when tuned, can be as efficient as a DOHC, but with similar tuning, DOHCs always achieve more power than SOHCs.
08-01-09, 06:38 PM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
If the duration valve lift and duration are the same on a SOHC and DOHC engine, it wouldn't really matter stock for stock. DOHC advantage comes in handy once you start factoring tuning and such. You can advance/retard timing one cam independent of the other. You can't do that with SOHC. But no Lexus or Acura owners (save for the TSX and such) are going to be playing around with their cam gears. SOHC is not a limitation at all, at least at these power levels.
Please feel free to believe what you want to. The experts know the difference especially with the precision variable valve timing systems that are used with many modern engines. Cam gears are not the issue. The direct mechanical valve actuation of DOHC is superior. The output numbers and the choice made by most premium car manufacturer to use DOHC (including Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Jag, etc.) speaks for itself.
08-01-09, 06:59 PM
#75
Of course it's for cost saving, no one said otherwise. That's how Honda has been saving money. As long as the engine can make good power, why wouldn't they want to save money? They've had this engine since the mid 90s and the design has been relatively unchanged. They are going to use this j-series block until the Acura brand dies.
Why is DOHC considered great for valve timing? Because you can have variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust side independent of one another. Going with DOHC is a matter of design choice (Especially if the valves are spead too far for 1 cam to actuate), not because it automatically makes more power (which it doesn't). But if a SOHC 3.7L can make 300hp+, is the SOHC really the limiting the engine?
<--- Mechanical engineering
But back on topic, Acura is in their own world so they can be Tier-1 if they like, but they wont be recognized by the rest of the world as a competitor to BMW and Mercedes Benz..
I really like Acura (well the previous models), but I'm not loyal enough to believe they are a contender to the big boys. They aren't bad cars at all, but they aren't great either.
Why is DOHC considered great for valve timing? Because you can have variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust side independent of one another. Going with DOHC is a matter of design choice (Especially if the valves are spead too far for 1 cam to actuate), not because it automatically makes more power (which it doesn't). But if a SOHC 3.7L can make 300hp+, is the SOHC really the limiting the engine?
<--- Mechanical engineering
But back on topic, Acura is in their own world so they can be Tier-1 if they like, but they wont be recognized by the rest of the world as a competitor to BMW and Mercedes Benz..
I really like Acura (well the previous models), but I'm not loyal enough to believe they are a contender to the big boys. They aren't bad cars at all, but they aren't great either.